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Thread: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you still have not even read the origin of that quote. Why would I waste time trying to explain what socialism and communism are(as has been done in this thread), or relinking to the congressional progressive caucus's website(with quotes), and the American Socialist Party(with quotes) and showed how they are different(again), or any of the other information put out in this thread when you are not bothering to read anything you do not want to hear?

    No, it really has not been explained. How are socialism and communism the same, how are they different? Should be a fairly simple question to answer since you seem very well versed on the subject.
    If it sounds like Marx and acts like Stalin...it must be Obama

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    The thing with Marx is that he understood socialism as the go-between from capitalism to communism. He thought of it as a natural progession from one to the other; that societies would move from capitalist to communist, and that communism was the better more progressive model for humanity. Tinhg is, Marx was wrong, in fact he was terribly wrong. It's not a progression from capitalism to communism, it a regression (In the context of Marx) from communism to capitalism. In fact, there aren't many truly comminist societies on Earth today. They are hybrids, meaning they were once communist, but now are mostly socialist/capitalist societies. Singapore led the way in the 70's, and China and almost everyone else has followed suit. Not to say communism doesn't have its advantages on paper, but the paper isn't worth anything because it ignores certain human attributes that are axiomatic and antithetical to the communist ideal. Communism wishes things that simply aren't there about humans, and it fails almost if not everytime because of it. Socialism, and to some lessor extent capitalism also fail because they ignore attributes, but nowhere near to the degree communism does.

    My question about the end game is a valid one. It exposes communist type thinkers if they choose to answer, -or- it shows what you really think, and even though you might not have known it, you may in fact be for freedom afterall..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why do you keep responding with stuff that has nothing to do with any claim in this thread?
    Are you saying that I should not respond to the comment that "Republicans are Nazis"?
    You are a global moderator. I suppose in this realm that makes you the queen...or whatever.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Are you saying that I should not respond to the comment that "Republicans are Nazis"?
    You are a global moderator. I suppose in this realm that makes you the queen...or whatever.
    Why not? You said progressives where socialists and communists. I just illustrated the folly of that point. In fact, the point was that it was absurd, just as calling republicans nazis is absurd, despite a few similarities.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The thing with Marx is that he understood socialism as the go-between from capitalism to communism. He thought of it as a natural progession from one to the other; that societies would move from capitalist to communist, and that communism was the better more progressive model for humanity. Tinhg is, Marx was wrong, in fact he was terribly wrong. It's not a progression from capitalism to communism, it a regression (In the context of Marx) from communism to capitalism. In fact, there aren't many truly comminist societies on Earth today. They are hybrids, meaning they were once communist, but now are mostly socialist/capitalist societies. Singapore led the way in the 70's, and China and almost everyone else has followed suit. Not to say communism doesn't have its advantages on paper, but the paper isn't worth anything because it ignores certain human attributes that are axiomatic and antithetical to the communist ideal. Communism wishes things that simply aren't there about humans, and it fails almost if not everytime because of it. Socialism, and to some lessor extent capitalism also fail because they ignore attributes, but nowhere near to the degree communism does.

    My question about the end game is a valid one. It exposes communist type thinkers if they choose to answer, -or- it shows what you really think, and even though you might not have known it, you may in fact be for freedom afterall..


    Tim-
    A worthy effort; I thanked it for that reason, not because I agree with it.

    How do you account for the current love fest of big 'Internationalist' capital and Red China, if they're somehow 'incompatible ideologies'?

    Is there any real difference for the average working stiff between a state like Stalin's Soviet Union, a state capitalist form of socialism, and a laissez faire type of private capitalism where a few thousand people end up owning over 90% of the wealth? Both suck up all productivity gains of workers into their own treasuries, along with political power. 'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.

    I think they have far more in common than they do differences, and that has become all the more obvious in the last 40 years.

    The 'efficient market' theory is another exercise in cognitive dissonance; whenever the 'market' becomes perfectly efficient profits equal zero and it self-destructs; hardly an economic 'goal' a society should shoot for, unless you're a psychopath, maybe. J.D. Rockefeller said 'Competition is a sin' for a very real reason: he believed it, and so did most of the Gilded Age capitalists, which is why they formed trusts and engaged in price-fixing, suppression of labor unions, and fanatically resisted any restrictions on immigration, the latter a very popular activity these days as well.
    Last edited by Oberon; 04-14-12 at 01:06 AM.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why not? You said progressives where socialists and communists. I just illustrated the folly of that point. In fact, the point was that it was absurd, just as calling republicans nazis is absurd, despite a few similarities.
    Like I said, a mixed economy is a socialist idea.

    The failure of progressives is the idea that broken gears in a working clock makes the broken gear not broken and that the broken gear will not break the clock. When in truth a broken gear doesn't become unbroken when you put it in a working clock. All it does is break the clock.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.
    Name me a time that has happened ever. Your talk is empty if you can't.

    The 'efficient market' theory is another exercise in cognitive dissonance; whenever the 'market' becomes perfectly efficient profits equal zero and it self-destructs;
    That is complete bull****. Do you even know the goals of the market?
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-14-12 at 01:21 AM.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    A worthy effort; I thanked it for that reason, not because I agree with it.

    How do you account for the current love fest of big 'Internationalist' capital and Red China, if they're somehow 'incompatible ideologies'?

    Is there any real difference for the average working stiff between a state like Stalin's Soviet Union, a state capitalist form of socialism, and a laissez faire type of private capitalism where a few thousand people end up owning over 90% of the wealth? Both suck up all productivity gains of workers into their own treasuries, along with political power. 'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.

    I think they have far more in common than they do differences, and that has become all the more obvious in the last 40 years.

    The 'efficient market' theory is another exercise in cognitive dissonance; whenever the 'market' becomes perfectly efficient profits equal zero and it self-destructs; hardly an economic 'goal' a society should shoot for, unless you're a psychopath, maybe. J.D. Rockefeller said 'Competition is a sin' for a very real reason: he believed it, and so did most of the Gilded Age capitalists, which is why they formed trusts and engaged in price-fixing, suppression of labor unions, and fanatically resisted any restrictions on immigration, the latter a very popular activity these days as well.
    Your post can be summed up in one simple answer. Capitalism is nothing like communism, neither in effect nor compromise!!! They are completely oppostie each other!


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Name me a time that has happened ever. Your talk is empty if you can't.
    The time that the vast majority of the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the relatively few is most of human history, whether the few was the pharohs or Caesar or the Catholic Church or the royal family or the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers or Romneys.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The time that the vast majority of the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the relatively few is most of human history, whether the few was the pharohs or Caesar or the Catholic Church or the royal family or the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers or Romneys.
    That is a hackish answer.

    First the days of Kings and Queens did not really see open markets but it did see at least one form of socialism so there is one of your failures. Second, it was controlled by the government not set free, so on the second level there is failure. Should I go on to your other failures?

    The rest is just garbage. While Romney the Vanderbilts, or the Rockefellers is or were wealthy they did or do not hold the majority of the wealth to the point where everyone else has nothing.

    Your little hackish attempt is a failure like all hackish attempts.

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