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Thread: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    I haven't read the whole thread since my last post but I don't need too, I know what this one said and that one.. However I ask one simple question to anyone willing to answer. What is the end game for human societies? How do all the religions, the ideologies and philosophical differences eventually mesh into one?

    50, 100, 300 years from now, how does what we have now all end? What kind of society are we left with?

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you are definitely correct that the Pilgrims tried that.

    for a year. many of them starved to death.

    then they switched to individualism (they had a much steeper learning curve than modern liberals).

    and, oddly, ate pretty well thereafter .
    Well, it's a great fantasy. Too bad it relies on leaving out important details, like the Plymouth Colony being a chartered private corporation, with shareholders demanding a return on their capital, and the reason those that made it over to Mass. were starving is because they were required to turn over all their production to the corporation beyond subsistence, and they went 'rogue' because they decided that staying alive was more important than profits for shareholders. Not to mention it was a bunch of 'Commie indians' who stepping in and got the farming thing off to a decent start by 'cooperating' with them, and of course, like all farming communities, they still helped each other with harvests, building, medical assistance, plowing, and all the rest of that stuff, so this little heart-warming example of 'libertarianism' isn't quite what really happened.

    Later on, the fur trade with the Commie indians allowed them to buy off those shareholders in England and kiss them off, at a reduced price per share as well.

    Not exactly the triumph of Social Darwinism and laissez faire many try to paint it to be.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Here we go again. How absurd.

    1) What extra-Constitutional process stopped Jefferson from being impeached ? And you apparently do not understand "treason".

    2) The Alien and Sedition Acts were eventually overturned by Congress. They were also voted in before Judicial Review was established.

    3) Washington ? Tell us where Washington violated due process and jailed Congress in its attempts to impeach him ?

    All these pretend liberal historians. What a joke.
    You're changing your tune. Before, you were saying the constitution must be upheld as written. Now you're saying it must be interpreted by Congress, that because Jefferson wasn't impeached, his actions weren't extra-constitutional. So, is the constitution interpretable or isn't it?

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    But he can't defend the idea that there are 81 communists in Congress, because they are factually not there.
    Finally! Someone with the facts. Okay, what are the facts then? Can you sure the political leanings of these people?
    I'm sure Marx thought he could defend his ideas just fine.
    You're sure of a lot of facts. it seems.

    His ideas were of their own time, and they've certainly influenced the modern age,
    Yes, many have witnessed this influence, and in fact it was often the last thing they ever witnessed.

    but Marxism is not a modern philosophy, and communism is not taking hold in the modern United States, and any assertion that they are is exactly the type of diversionary tactic you're describing.
    Diversionary from what? You think there are no closet communists around? Those who still hold Marxist points of view and genuinely believe it's a good thing? Where do you get your "facts"?

    I'm not a defender of Marx. Marx can defend himself. I'm a defender of my own ideas and perspectives. Modern liberals, likewise, may not share your worldview, but very few follow Marxist ideology.
    Didn't you just claim that Marx only thought he could defend his own ideas?

    Very few? If only. But one is still too many, just as there are far too many Fascist, racists, and other types of misogynists in the world.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Finally! Someone with the facts. Okay, what are the facts then? Can you sure the political leanings of these people?


    You're sure of a lot of facts. it seems.



    Yes, many have witnessed this influence, and in fact it was often the last thing they ever witnessed.



    Diversionary from what? You think there are no closet communists around? Those who still hold Marxist points of view and genuinely believe it's a good thing? Where do you get your "facts"?



    Didn't you just claim that Marx only thought he could defend his own ideas?

    Very few? If only. But one is still too many, just as there are far too many Fascist, racists, and other types of misogynists in the world.
    You know, you "rugged individualists" sure see the world as a bunch of collectives. I'm sure there are even more villainous archetypes you can call out -- satanists, witches. It doesn't matter what they profess to believe. You can see their true intentions.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post

    The concept of rugged individual makes for great self stroking but we are a group animal that works best when many hands lighten the load...
    These people often gathered together in groups but only because it served their purpose at the time. They were not forced into it nor did the government make them do it and, as free people, they were always free to leave. They cooperated with each other largely without government direction, involvement or interference. And any government tended to be local.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    cpwill-
    Puritans actually, and their salvation didn't come from individualism but adapting native crops to their use, the Commons remained in use far after the first year. As far as eating pretty good, no sir, they had periodic visits from starvation, the Salem Witch Insanity came about partly due to having to resort to eating smutty grain during another thin winter.

    The use of fortified settlements and the bands of settlers working together for both protection and building is well documented. You have heard of barn raising parties, communal harvests, building irrigation systems that benefit more than a so-called rugged individual.

    Like I said, many 'conservatives' attempt to rewrite the actual history to some self serving myth...

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I copied the exact format aqnd wording for that sentence from the post I quoted. It's called making a point.
    Strange...sounded like childish name calling to me.
    If it sounds like Marx and acts like Stalin...it must be Obama

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Look it up NotQuiteRight. Communism was a massive fail with the Pilgrims. Many starved to death because that system could not rise to the level pf production needed to withstand the harsh realities. So they switched to rugged individualism. To capitalism.
    Lol ... how much 'capital' did they have, exactly? And, 'harsh realities' demand cooperation and support from the entire community. 'Rugged individualists' die off amazingly quickly in wildernesses.

    And again, they survived by keeping what they produced for themselves instead of giving it to corporate shareholders, i.e. private enterprise. Workers giving all their productivity gains to a private corporation, or to a state, is a distinction without a difference for almost all producers.


    To enabling "have's and have not's" based on one's own brains and braun, where the charity of the have's made sure that the have-not's endured as well. That's what America was founded on, not all the liberal crappola.

    Look it up liberal.
    Really? Is that why the wealthiest people in America during and after the Revolution were slave owners and plantation owners who never hit a lick in their entire lives? How about all those indentured servants suckered into coming over by liars and swindlers who wouldn't be caught dead hefting an axe or unloading a ship? Do pirates count as 'rugged individualists'? How about smugglers?

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ummm...bat**** insane libertarian crap isn't the topic.
    So conservatives don't understand words like socialism(even if that is false) but its libertarian insane bat **** to point that liberals don't understand the words in the law of the land? Whatever dude.

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