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Thread: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

  1. #21
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    6. Is this legal?

    After North Korea conducted missile tests and a test of a nuclear weapon in 2006, and again in 2009, the UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions demanding that North Korea halt its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs. United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 1718 states that "that the DPRK shall suspend all activities related to its ballistic missile programme and in this context re-establish its pre-existing commitments to a moratorium on missile launching." UNSCR 1874 "demands that the DPRK not conduct any further nuclear test or any launch using ballistic missile technology."

    North Korean officials claim that the Security Council Resolutions are illegal and that under the Outer Space Treaty, which North Korea signed just before its April 2009 launch, it has a right to right to the peaceful exploration of space. The vast majority of states that operate satellites in orbit do not have their own rocket programs, but rather purchase launch services from commercial vendors in a handful of countries.

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    Legal or not, if North Korea is unable to feed their own people, doesn't it seem odd that they spend their money on "exploring space?" Shouldn't they be spending their efforts on "exploring" ways to keep the populace healthy?
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  2. #22
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Legal or not, if North Korea is unable to feed their own people, doesn't it seem odd that they spend their money on "exploring space?" Shouldn't they be spending their efforts on "exploring" ways to keep the populace healthy?
    First I don't see what this has to do with the thread, which is about the DPRK rocket launch. Nor do I see what it has to do with what I posted that you quoted (or what I posted anywhere in this thread, for that matter), which dealt strictly with the legality of the launch under international law.

    Second, there really isn't any evidence that I have seen that "North Korea is unable to feed their own people". There are some refugee reports, but these are not really reliable in themselves as evidence. This is not to say that it is not true, but merely that I do not jump to conclusions based on hearsay.

    Third, North Korea's healthcare system has been lauded by the WHO (WHO director general Margaret Chan in April 2010 after a visit to the country called the North Korean healthcare system "the envy of the developing world"). As an aside, and emphasis on my former point, Amnesty International has taken quite a different position, based solely on refugee reports. This is a good example of why it is silly to rely on refugee reports as well as the massive amount of unsubstantiated claims being thrown around.

    Fourth, talking about what a state "should" or "shouldn't" do is absolutely silly. For example, the US government "should" be working towards providing healthcare for its citizens, but it is not. You gain more insight into the functioning of a state when you ask why it does what it does and don't deal with futile "should's".
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 04-16-12 at 10:14 AM.
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I'm thinking the boy has less to show off to us than he does to his own generals. I'd be willing to be that that country is an armpit hair away from a military coup and Il is trying to preserve an image of toughness so as to not give a crevasse of light for the generals to use an excuse to boot him for being too weak.
    Well his next project is to blow up an atom bomb. I hope it goes worse than the last one, which was also a failure.
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    First I don't see what this has to do with the thread, which is about the DPRK rocket launch. Nor do I see what it has to do with what I posted that you quoted (or what I posted anywhere in this thread, for that matter), which dealt strictly with the legality of the launch under international law.

    Second, there really isn't any evidence that I have seen that "North Korea is unable to feed their own people". There are some refugee reports, but these are not really reliable in themselves as evidence. This is not to say that it is not true, but merely that I do not jump to conclusions based on hearsay.

    Third, North Korea's healthcare system has been lauded by the WHO (WHO director general Margaret Chan in April 2010 after a visit to the country called the North Korean healthcare system "the envy of the developing world"). As an aside, and emphasis on my former point, Amnesty International has taken quite a different position, based solely on refugee reports. This is a good example of why it is silly to rely on refugee reports as well as the massive amount of unsubstantiated claims being thrown around.

    Fourth, talking about what a state "should" or "shouldn't" do is absolutely silly. For example, the US government "should" be working towards providing healthcare for its citizens, but it is not. You gain more insight into the functioning of a state when you ask why it does what it does and don't deal with futile "should's".
    It relates because, NK sacrifices an arrangement to receive food from the US by launching this rocket. If the rocket launch is only about "space exploration" as you assert, it seems like they are placing a national "luxury item" ahead of feeding their people. If the rocket had a military purpose (perhaps a saleable one later on) it would make more sense, but you claim it's not.

    My comment about keeping the "people heathy" is related to food supply, not specifically pharmaceuticals. Good food, and good quantities of it, contributes significantly to good health. But if you would still claim that North Koreans are well fed, then why would they strike yet another deal for food? And why sacrifice this for "space exploration" which cannot contribute to the food supply? Consider this as well:

    The shortages have again made North Korea a ward of the international community. At the request of Pyongyang, the World Food Program (WFP) has stepped up its relief effort in recent months. The agency plans to provide food in the coming weeks for more than 6 million North Koreans — about a quarter of the population. In certain parts of the country, particularly the northeast, the situation is "reaching a level of humanitarian emergency," says Jean-Pierre de Margerie, the WFP's country director for North Korea in Pyongyang.
    The Real Crisis in North Korea? Food - TIME

    This is NOT anecdotal evidence from refugees. This is a large organization that must step in and help. If the WFP must step in to provide food then North Koreans must not be getting enough food. If they aren't fed enough then how can their health be the envy of the world? If they aren't fed well enough, why isn't NK improving it's agriculture instead of developing nuclear weapons and "space exploration?"
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye
    It relates because, NK sacrifices an arrangement to receive food from the US by launching this rocket. If the rocket launch is only about "space exploration" as you assert, it seems like they are placing a national "luxury item" ahead of feeding their people.
    Well, I don't really think one can necessarily conclude that a satellite is a "national luxury item" as you have here. Perhaps the government was planning on using this satellite to monitor weather patterns and climate, and assist in surveying for potential improvements to their agricultural system. This is speculation, but my point is that it is very possible that this isn't a "luxury item". My personal (speculative, unfounded) opinion is that this was the case, as I don't think the DPRK would have invested so heavily into such a program without it being so.

    If the rocket had a military purpose (perhaps a saleable one later on) it would make more sense, but you claim it's not.
    I don't claim that it doesn't have a military purpose. All space programs have both military and civilian advantages. However, I think that people who are claiming that this wasn't an attempted satellite launch don't have a leg on which to stand - after all, the outcome for the DPRK is the same regardless, and they openly admit when they are testing ICBM's, so why would they suddenly hide it now?

    Granted, a satellite rocket is just an ICBM with a satellite stuck on the top and some staging/control modifications - think of the SM-65 Atlas, the first American ICBM which was used to launch satellites into space for about a decade - so I do think, as I said earlier, that this had both civilian as well as military advantages.

    My comment about keeping the "people heathy" is related to food supply, not specifically pharmaceuticals. Good food, and good quantities of it, contributes significantly to good health. But if you would still claim that North Koreans are well fed, then why would they strike yet another deal for food?
    I never claimed that North Koreans were well fed. I stated that I haven't seen evidence of recent food crises in the country that isn't solely based on refugee reports.

    This is NOT anecdotal evidence from refugees. This is a large organization that must step in and help. If the WFP must step in to provide food then North Koreans must not be getting enough food.
    You're right, it's not, thank you for this. Though, again, I don't see this substantiating the idea that there is mass starvation or anything in the country, as many people claim; indeed, the WFP's page on their North Korean program states:

    Quote Originally Posted by WFP
    While malnutrition rates among children have decreased the last decade, one in every three children remains chronically malnourished or ‘stunted’, meaning they are too short for their age. A quarter of all pregnant and breast-feeding women are also malnourished. A Crop and Food Supply Assessment Mission (CFSAM) in October last year noted that a small shock in the future could trigger a severe crisis which would be difficult to contain if these chronic deficits are not effectively managed.
    So malnutrition has decreased, but it is still a significant problem; and there are significant problems with North Korea's food system, but it is not currently undergoing a "severe crisis".

    If they aren't fed enough then how can their health be the envy of the world?
    The WHO's assessment was of their healthcare industry and not of "their health". Particularly, the abundance of doctors and level of coverage North Korean citizens receive. Chan, in her report, recognized that malnutrition was a problem.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 04-16-12 at 11:20 AM.
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    They haven't had a lot of luck with these things. I'm gonna laugh my ass off if it falls over on the pad.
    It got very far. All those Mr. Spock haircuts and they can't get one rocket to fly.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    It got very far. All those Mr. Spock haircuts and they can't get one rocket to fly.
    hehe. The Spock haircut doesn't work unless you have the somber bassline playing in the background.
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well his next project is to blow up an atom bomb. I hope it goes worse than the last one, which was also a failure.
    Who knows maybe moon face will blow himself up with his own bomb?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Who knows maybe moon face will blow himself up with his own bomb?
    We can only hope. That's assuming he's smart enough to find the big red button that reads, "Do not press!"
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    Re: North Korea says fuel being injected into rocket now

    ....about the mysterious new missile during the mass military parade on Sunday, April 15, 2012... will this one work better? is it real or a mock-up or what...



    The Washington Times is reporting that ..."China likely provided the mobile long-range missile launcher that North Korea displayed in a military parade over the weekend, which would put Beijing in violation of U.N. sanctions, analysts say..."


    Analysts: China broke sanctions if N. Korea using its missile launcher - Washington Times

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