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Thread: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma ram

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Morally, perhaps, neither is better or worse. But in terms of the effects on society, hate crimes against people of a certain race, sexuality, etc.. are often worse.
    Why?

    If you have two black guys killed by whites, two white guys killed by whites, two white guys killed by blacks, or two black guys killed by blacks, why is one worse than the other, and why is white or black or black on white crime worse than white on white, or black on black? You still have the same loss of life, and regardless of the motivation, race or not, there is no difference in the loss or net result, moral or otherwise.
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Morally, perhaps, neither is better or worse. But in terms of the effects on society, hate crimes against people of a certain race, sexuality, etc.. are often worse.
    I don't see how. Making it worse to kill someone when race is a factor only helps to drive a wedge between the people of this country. Far too often people don't care if a black man dies unless it was racially motivated. Plenty of people wouldn't care if a man gets beaten to death in an alley. But if that man was gay then all the sudden it is front page news. What is it that makes that persons life more important? To me, I don't care if you murder someone because they have money or something you want or if you murder someone because you dont like how they worship, or because of their sex life. Murder is murder. It is not more ok to murder someone randomly than it is because of race. It is less wrong to murder someone during a robbery. The end result is the same. A persons life was cut and the lives they were involved with a forever changed. As long as we keep drawing racial lines people are going to continue to exploit them.
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats true. I wonder what we are going to learn about the role between the two. There was a solid separation in age. Who knows who or what triggered who, what or how. Im just glad they caught them.
    I think it's a socioeconomic mixed with psychological thing at least as far as non-school killing sprees go. People who commit killing sprees tend to be on the so-called "fringes" of society. They usually are in the lower echelons of class. When you take into consideration the psychological trauma left by the dog-eat-dog mentality in the US, it's only a matter of time before people start snapping. We live in a society where people have more access to guns then they do to psychological and psychiatric care.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Morally, perhaps, neither is better or worse. But in terms of the effects on society, hate crimes against people of a certain race, sexuality, etc.. are often worse.
    The thing is a murder,assault, rape, vandalism and other crimes are are crimes against the victim not people who are not victims of those crimes.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Here is a Muslim:

    John Allen Muhammad #1181







    [/url]



    - Running away Joko?
    And can you name any Muslim victims?

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    One of the persons arrested for this had a father gunned down in cold blood by a black person. No charges filed as of 04-08-12.
    Was there any racial motivation there. Of course not.
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Morally, perhaps, neither is better or worse. But in terms of the effects on society, hate crimes against people of a certain race, sexuality, etc.. are often worse.
    How? How can society even know the motivation behind a killing? Just because a black guy kills a white guy or vice versa doesn't automatically make it about race, thus some kind of hate crime. It could just have been a drug deal gone bad, or a crime of passion.

    I agree there should be no such thing as a hate crime. If I blow your brains out, its not because I love you. We have a name for that sort of crime, it's called murder.

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Then again.. killing sprees like this one aren't really the "territory" of blacks. It's mostly a white thing with a few exceptions. Black "murdering sprees" tend to be targeted and not just walk into a random place and start killing. The whole black shooter thing is a bit of a bear carcus in the criminology world. Same with the black serial killer. They exist, they're just rare.
    I ****ing hate Agreeing with Hatuey... but he has a point.
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    How? How can society even know the motivation behind a killing? Just because a black guy kills a white guy or vice versa doesn't automatically make it about race, thus some kind of hate crime. It could just have been a drug deal gone bad, or a crime of passion.

    I agree there should be no such thing as a hate crime. If I blow your brains out, its not because I love you. We have a name for that sort of crime, it's called murder.
    Yeah, that explains that the holocaust was just murder....nothing else.

    Excusing an action caused by an ideology can be called "white washing".
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I ****ing hate Agreeing with Hatuey... but he has a point.
    They're rare in the US context. In Africa, serial killers are a dime a dozen. I was in Liberia a few years ago and I'd hear stories about former soldiers running around who'd killed in the hundreds. Not during warfare. Just going into random villages and killing and torturing people. Then again war makes for some terrible ideas but I wouldn't be surprised if a good 5-15% of the people who committed killings were serial killers.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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