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Thread: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma ram

  1. #21
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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma rampage - CBS News

    This crime appears to have been very racially motivated. Glad they caught these two so quickly.
    I still believe that hate crime laws should not exist. If they are guilty hopefully they are only charged with 1st degree murder and attempted murder and are given the death penalty upon a guilty conviction.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I suggest to you that both of the above were bat **** crazy.
    Its off topic, but based on what? Manson's progression to what he became is a very reasoned and logical progression. He was very much a bi-product of his childhood and teenage years. His actions were well thought out.

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its off topic, but based on what? Manson's progression to what he became is a very reasoned and logical progression. He was very much a bi-product of his childhood and teenage years. His actions were well thought out.
    Being thought out doesn't mean you're not bat**** insane. Case and point: Gary Busey. The man can go on for hours. Still he's bat**** insane. Look at this face:

    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its off topic, but based on what? Manson's progression to what he became is a very reasoned and logical progression. He was very much a bi-product of his childhood and teenage years. His actions were well thought out.
    I don't know if either was "crazy", but your reasoning for why you think they aren't is off. Having "well thought out actions" is not evidence of sanity.

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Being thought out doesn't mean you're not bat**** insane. Case and point: Gary Busey. The man can go on for hours. Still he's bat**** insane. Look at this face:

    Before or after the motorcycle accident and TBI?

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I still believe that hate crime laws should not exist. If they are guilty hopefully they are only charged with 1st degree murder and attempted murder and are given the death penalty upon a guilty conviction.
    I agree with you. All premeditated murder is a hate crime. I don't care what their reason for selecting a victim is. One is not better or worse than another.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I don't know if either was "crazy", but your reasoning for why you think they aren't is off. Having "well thought out actions" is not evidence of sanity.
    Manson was raised in hotel rooms with a mother turning tricks in front of him. He was sent away to a state home were he was molested, bounced around from prison to prison, had the ****tiest of environments, landed in California where he saw a bunch of lost flower children looking for a messiah and he became their messiah. He was narcissistic, egocentric, and very manipulative...but he wasnt in any way shape or form crazy. Watch some of the Youtube video of him in his younger days staging the interview scenes, then watch him flip the switch to mad man Manson. No...he isnt crazy.

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Then again.. killing sprees like this one aren't really the "territory" of blacks. It's mostly a white thing with a few exceptions. Black "murdering sprees" tend to be targeted and not just walk into a random place and start killing. The whole black shooter thing is a bit of a bear carcus in the criminology world. Same with the black serial killer. They exist, they're just rare.
    Thats true. I wonder what we are going to learn about the role between the two. There was a solid separation in age. Who knows who or what triggered who, what or how. Im just glad they caught them.

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Good on the community for stepping forward and providing the leads to get these lunatics.
    I am actually surprised the community came forward and provided leads. North Tulsa is considered the poor and bad side of town. And like a lot of other poor and lousy neighborhoods in the US there exists a no snitch culture.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tulsa shooting suspects Jake England, Alvin Watts charged with murder in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I agree with you. All premeditated murder is a hate crime. I don't care what their reason for selecting a victim is. One is not better or worse than another.
    Morally, perhaps, neither is better or worse. But in terms of the effects on society, hate crimes against people of a certain race, sexuality, etc.. are often worse.

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