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Thread: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Eighty Deuce



    President Ronald reagan tripled the national debt he started with. Has President Obama tripled the debt he started with?
    This is pretty funny. If I owe someone $1, and you owe someone $3, does that make me three times as thrifty as you ?

    Most folks recognize that the most consistent way to measure relative debt and deficits is by looking at the deficit to GDP ratio per year.

    Obama is King !! .... and we ain't talking Elvis here ....

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonI View Post
    Any facts to back these items up? According to factcheck.org, more people were added to food stamps under Bush than any other president...

    I didn't look up the others so I'd appreciate your links to back up your statements...

    FactCheck.org : Newt’s Faulty Food-Stamp Claim
    Again, numbers seem a problem for one side of the aisle. My statement was that foodstamp usage under Obama was at an all time high. It is, in numbers, but more importantly, as a percent of all Americans. An expanding population would usually cause an increasing NUMBER of people with brown hair, for instance. What would be of note would be if the percent were going up.

    FYI, from your artticle, Gingrich apparently said that Obama put more folks on Food Stamps than any other President. While is is true that during W's eight years, more folks enrolled than so far in Obama's three years +, But not by much. What is a fact is that more folks have gone on FS in Obama's first term than any other single term of any President. And as a percent, we are at a record high.

    My biggest point though, which none have refuted, is that this economy is smoke and mirrors. A house of cards. Deliberately gamed by Obama. It must fall, for it cannot stand. Does a single lib here understand, much less acknowledge, the inevitable outcome of having the Fed being the largest buyer of our own debt ?

    Here is a fair analysis:

    Newt Gingrich has been pushing the line that Obama is the “food stamp president.” On first glance, the numbers back him up: There are now a record number of Americans receiving food stamps, with about 46 million participants in 22 million households. But that’s mainly because there’s been record poverty levels, not because President Obama has taken major steps to make it easier to receive food stamps from the government.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...no8P_blog.html
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 04-08-12 at 12:30 PM.

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    My biggest point though, which none have refuted, is that this economy is smoke and mirrors. A house of cards. Deliberately gamed by Obama. It must fall, for it cannot stand. Does a single lib here understand, much less acknowledge, the inevitable outcome of having the Fed being the largest buyer of our own debt ?
    What do you mean by that?

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Are you really implying that growth and increased demand aren't directly linked?
    not at all. increased demand is the result of growth in production.

    but you can't consume something that hasn't been made yet.

    Right now we're seeing evidence to the contrary, minimal growth despite relatively friendly tax rates due to the dip in disposable income for the lower and middle classes (hence less demand for products in general.)
    well, that's largely because we decided to very stupidly maximize government v market allocation of resources in the middle of recession. In addition, we decided to rapidly jack up the total burden of governance on the most dynamic portion of our economy - our small businesses through a surge in the regulatory burden.

    ...Awhile back, my brother Pete decided to chase his version of the American dream. He did his homework; purchased quality used equipment via the internet, and signed a lease - in hopes of opening a small mom and pop style yogurt shop near Charleston, S.C. He's a smart businessman, who tries to calculate his decisions carefully. Nonetheless, it wasn't long before he found himself tangled in a web of regulatory red tape. He was told he needed to purchase environmentally friendly grease trap equipment, although no frying is involved in serving non-fat yogurt. It didn't stop there. Additional environmental requirements like the installation of specialized wastewater drains, and tens of thousands of dollars for more unessential equipment left him watching his hopes of the American dream go down the drain, along with any hopes of hiring new people should his business succeed.

    My brother is not alone; his experience has become all too common in the Obama administration's new regulatory normal. South Carolina's Nikki Haley said it best when she recently told Fox News' Sean Hannity, "I need a partner in the White House." Haley claimed the hardest thing about her job had been the federal government intrusion into South Carolina's business. Though she was a Tea Party favorite, Haley endorsed presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. She said Romney promised to keep the federal government out of South Carolina's way, so it can create jobs....


    which is why Republicans are more interested in lowering the regulatory burden than in lowering the tax burden. Heck, the Ryan Plan keeps effective tax rates on the high-income earners the same.



    We've seen economies in the past with much higher tax rates on the wealthy flourish because of the success in the lower and middle class (more disposable income to be spent on products that aren't deemed necessities) not because of tax cuts for the business owners themselves. It's almost impossible to separate the two concepts.
    what an excellent idea. let's look at what happened in economies in the past:

    ...Some excellent work on this topic has come from Valerie Ramey of the University of California, San Diego. Ramey finds a government-spending multiplier of about 1.4 — a figure close to what the Obama administration assumed, but much smaller than the tax multiplier identified by the Romers. Similarly, in recent research, Andrew Mountford (of the University of London) and Harald Uhlig (of the University of Chicago) have used sophisticated statistical techniques that try to capture the complicated relationships among economic variables over time; they conclude that a "deficit-financed tax cut is the best fiscal policy to stimulate the economy." In particular, they report that tax cuts are about four times as potent as increases in government spending.

    Perhaps the most compelling research on this subject is a very recent study by my colleagues Alberto Alesina and Silvia Ardagna at Harvard. They used data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to identify every major fiscal stimulus adopted by the 30 OECD countries between 1970 and 2007. Alesina and Ardagna then separated those plans that were in fact followed by robust economic growth from those that were not, and compared their characteristics. They found that the stimulus packages that appeared to be successful had cut business and income taxes, while those that evidently did not succeed had increased government spending and transfer payments...

    isn't history fun?

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonI View Post
    Where are all the jobs the GOP promised after the 2010 election? Odd once they took over they stopped talking about jobs and turned their attention to the debt ceiling...wonder why that was...hmmmm...
    You are going to have to ask Reid and Obama that question. They are the one's who are blocking all the job-creation bills the Republican House has sent to them.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    What do you mean by that?
    Perhaps you should educate yourself with information already provided ?

    I would put the three biggest examples as being:

    1) Having the Fed increase the amount of debt they buy. That is the biggest kick-the-can in the scheme. It would be as you getting out of debt by filling out every credit-card application you can get your hands on, running them up, then giving the bills to your kids, IMMHO. Meanwhile, we all get to deal with the added inflation.

    2) Changes made in how folks are counted so as to maximize the mirage created by the LFPR.

    3) Changes made in how inflation is measured.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 04-08-12 at 12:40 PM.

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You are going to have to ask Reid and Obama that question. They are the one's who are blocking all the job-creation bills the Republican House has sent to them.

    Do you know of any that the house has passed that do more than simply cut taxes on the rich and get rid of regulations? If so, would love to see them...

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonI View Post
    Do you know of any that the house has passed that do more than simply cut taxes on the rich and get rid of regulations? If so, would love to see them...
    The Senate is currently sitting on no less than 27 Jobs Bills sent to them by the House

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not at all. increased demand is the result of growth in production.

    but you can't consume something that hasn't been made yet.



    well, that's largely because we decided to very stupidly maximize government v market allocation of resources in the middle of recession. In addition, we decided to rapidly jack up the total burden of governance on the most dynamic portion of our economy - our small businesses through a surge in the regulatory burden.





    which is why Republicans are more interested in lowering the regulatory burden than in lowering the tax burden. Heck, the Ryan Plan keeps effective tax rates on the high-income earners the same.





    what an excellent idea. let's look at what happened in economies in the past:




    isn't history fun?
    By the same token, there is zero incentive to increase employment or production if their is a lack of demand. The lack of demand is stemming from deleveraging and a lack of disposable income for the lower income brackets, not tax rates on the wealthy or lack of production.

    Regulations could certainly be scaled back you have no argument from me on that point.

    I didn't call for increased government spending (stimulus) or higher tax rates, but additional tax cuts wouldn't stimulate demand in this economic climate, nor are they feasible in my humble opinion.

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    Re: Jobs recovery suffers setback in March

    How many of them deal with tax cuts and deregulation?

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