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Thread: White House releases USD 1.5 bln aid to Egypt, meets Brotherhood figures

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Obama probably thinks he's buying some measure of protection.

    For someone everyone says is so smart, he seems rather dumb to me...kind of like Chamberlain was.
    ... yeah... Chamberlain authorized the killing of Hitler when he had the chance right? What about send troops to Germany? Chamberlain do that too? Did he send troops into Poland? Yeah... Obama is kind of like Chamberlain if you live in a universe where oceans are made of Reductio Ad Hitlerum.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 04-06-12 at 12:59 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ... yeah... Chamberlain authorized the killing of Hitler when he had the chance right? What about send troops to Germany? Chamberlain do that too? Did he send troops into Poland? Yeah... Obama is kind of like Chamberlain if you live in a universe where oceans are made of Reductio Ad Hitlerum.
    No I'd say he's more like the guy paying tribute to an Imperialist organization which is a declared enemy of the United States and liberal western values in general.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Must be stressful to see the worst possible motivations in everything the president does.
    I see that as the best possible motivation, the worst motivation would be that he supports the Muslim Brotherhood and believes their laughable reformed image which they're trying to sell to the western world.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormageddon View Post
    No I'd say he's more like the guy paying tribute to an Imperialist organization which is a declared enemy of the United States and liberal western values in general.
    Lolwu? Tone down the rhetoric there son - you wouldn't want to hurt yourself using nonsequiturs.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormageddon View Post
    KUNA : White House releases USD 1.5 bln aid to Egypt, meets Brotherhood figures - Politics - 05/04/2012

    I have given the POTUS the benefit of the doubt for the majority of his term in office, but if there is one thing I can not support it is the funding of theocratic groups who support barbarism and oppression straight out of the 7th century which is exactly what the POTUS has done by releasing this $1.5 Billion in U.S. taxpayer dollars to the Qutbist/Salafist ruled Egyptian government.
    It may come as a shock, but American governments, including Republican ones, have a long history of providing support, financial and otherwise, to regimes known for their "barbarism and oppression."

    During the early 1980's, the Reagan Administration continued to support Saddam Hussein in the full knowledge that he was using chemical weapons not only on the Iranians - but against his own people, the Kurds.

    American's don't seem to object on moral grounds, to supporting regimes that practice "barbarism and oppression," - as long as their innocent victims happen to be somebody else!

    Document 25: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Jonathan T. Howe to Lawrence S. Eagleburger. "Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" [Includes Cables Entitled "Deterring Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" and "Background of Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons"], November 21, 1983.

    State Department officials recommend discussing the use of chemical weapons with Iraqi officials soon, in order to deter further use and "to avoid unpleasantly surprising Iraq through public positions we may have to take on this issue." A background cable says that Iraq used lethal chemical weapons in October 1982 and, reportedly, against Iranian forces July and August 1983 "and more recently against Kurdish insurgents."

    Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs
    Document 52: Department of State Cable from George P. Shultz to the United States Embassy in Lebanon [et al.]. "Department Press Briefing, March 30, 1984," March 31, 1984.

    The State Department announces it has imposed foreign policy controls on Iran and Iraq for exports of chemical weapons precursors. It responds to questions from the press about U.S. policy regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and a department spokesperson says Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations.

    Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs
    Last edited by jgarden47; 04-06-12 at 03:14 AM.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Must be stressful to see the worst possible motivations in everything the president does.
    Oh, it's not stressful at all, but thanks for your concern.

    Anyway, given the insincere double-speak Obama regularly engages in when explaining his actions, I learned years ago to never trust his stated reasoning for anything he does.

    But, at least I proposed a possible motivation...what have YOU given us?
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lolwu? Tone down the rhetoric there son - you wouldn't want to hurt yourself using nonsequiturs.
    Excuse me but I'm not your son, that's number one, and number two he invited the MB to his Cairo speech, his administration just got out of a meeting with the MB right before they just gave the MB $1.5 Billion dollars, that's billion with a B, of U.S. taxpayer dollars. Now if that is not overt support for a declared enemy of the United States then I don't know what is.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    We are in debt.It doesn't matter what kind of group it is. The president shouldn't be giving out cash to other countries.
    I would go further and say we have to cut subsidies as well. If you are debt, and having trouble paying your bills, you donít donate 20 bucks to the little league team down the street. Sorry.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden47 View Post
    It may come as a shock, but American governments, including Republican ones, have a long history of providing support, financial and otherwise, to regimes known for their "barbarism and oppression."

    During the early 1980's, the Reagan Administration continued to support Saddam Hussein in the full knowledge that he was using chemical weapons not only on the Iranians - but against his own people, the Kurds.

    American's don't seem to object on moral grounds, to supporting regimes that practice "barbarism and oppression," - as long as their innocent victims happen to be somebody else!
    A) We were hardly the Baathists largest supporters, you're thinking of the Soviet Union, the U.S. only provided Iraq with appx. .5% of their foreign sold arms.

    B) I'm not sure how not wanting Iraq to be conquered by Iran is analogous to sending the M.B. $1.5 Billion who isn't even involved in a war let alone one in which they are close to being overrun.

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    Re: Obama Releases $1.5 Billion to Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt

    I've disagreed with conservatives who had issues with pushing for Democracy in Egypt simply because the people that the citizens pick to lead them may be people we don't like. Either you support Democracy or you support singularly your immediete self interest, but don't pander the notion that somehow you support Democracy when you do so only when benefit you in the short term, otherwise bring on the dictatorships.

    HOWEVER....

    Once they have democracy, if that democratically chosen leadership is such that its adverse to the interests of the US then we absolutely should treat them like any other government that is against our interests....such as not funding them. Just beecause you're a Democracy doesn't mean we need to support you and give you money and other such stuff regardless of your governments standing in terms of US Security and Interests.

    I'm all for supporting any country that seeks to democratically decide its governmental direction (note, SUPPORT, not win it for them. Democracy that is given, not taken, is tenuous to succeed long term imho), regardless if that direction is going to be benefitical to us or not. While I generally believe that America should act in its own interest, I believe its LONG TERM interest is best served by being a beacon and supporter of Democracy across the world. HOWEVER, there is no reason why our government should support any government that will act adverse to America's interest.

    Egypt wanted Democracy, and I support their efforts for that. Once they've gotten Democracy, they've allowed an entity that is hostile to U.S. Interests in the area to become their government. As such, that government should be treated in a way that addresses that issue.

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