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Connecticut Senate votes to abolish death penalty amid victim concerns

specklebang said:
To spend your years in a cage, never to have a drink, love a woman, pet a cat is a greater punishment than death. Dead people are not bored, nor do they suffer.
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Oh stop it. If we are to go by the right wing mantra, jail is fun. It's so much fun, people love going in more than once.
 
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PrometheusBound said:
The serial killer of teenagers, John Wayne Gacey, spent more time alive on Death Row than the lifetimes of his victims. If we can't have speedy and cheap executions, we should return to the idea of "paying one's debt to society" by letting these people free if they participate in risky medical research, which will save more lives than the condemned themselves took.
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Good point. As I recall, President Garfield's assassin was caught, tried, sentenced and executed within a span of 6 weeks. Back in the fifties, it was a national scandal when a convicted rapist/murderer spent 10 years on death row. And it seems like 20 years is now the norm. That doesn't seem like progress to me.
 
specklebang said:
To spend your years in a cage, never to have a drink, love a woman, pet a cat is a greater punishment than death. Dead people are not bored, nor do they suffer.
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Have you checked with Charlie Manson for his opinion on that subject?
 
Diogenes said:
In the CT case, I would argue that the killers are worse that dogs.
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Dehumanization is the first step in killing; of course you'd say that.
 
Meathead said:
I like dogs and I would value their lives more than many of those scumbags on death rows.
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That's a rather sick argument, IMO; but whatever.
 
Manson & Speck do seem to contradict my theory. I'm not sure why some prisons allow entertainment. Still, look at people like Pollard that are in a REAL prison.

Diogenes said:
Have you checked with Charlie Manson for his opinion on that subject?
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Hare said:
What does Manson have to do with this conversation?
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He's a serial murderer who has spent most of his life in prison. Does he share your opinion that prison is a fate worse than death?
 
The big problem with the State executing a citizen is the burden to make sure without a doubt, not just legally sanctioned, the citizen isn't innocent. I realize a trail is held but I also realize that mostly means the bare legal requirement was met on the defendant's behalf. These days as more and more convicted citizens are found not guilty due to a third party testing the DNA that wasn't able or thought necessary to obtain the conviction.

Now I understand some are quite the cynic, tough guy, harden soul, foo-fightin fool on the internet.

But I believe we are all good Christian folk here...

Time for my meds
 
Diogenes said:
He's a serial murderer who has spent most of his life in prison. Does he share your opinion that prison is a fate worse than death?
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Actually, he's not.
 
Ikari said:
That's a rather sick argument, IMO; but whatever.
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That I value the lives of most dogs over people like Richard Allen Davis and Lawrence (pliers) Bittaker is not an argument. It is a personal judgement and your opinion is invariably irrelevant to it - simple really.
 
Meathead said:
That I value the lives of most dogs over people like Richard Allen Davis and Lawrence (pliers) Bittaker is not an argument. It is a personal judgement and your opinion is invariably irrelevant to it - simple really.
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Well it's a rather sick judgement. Humans are never lower than animals. The only reason people say so is to dehumanize an individual so that they can kill them guilt free. Common tactic. Endorsed by pro-choice, pro-war, pro-death penalty, etc sort of folk. Dehumanize to kill. I find it sickening.
 
Ikari said:
Well it's a rather sick judgement. Humans are never lower than animals. The only reason people say so is to dehumanize an individual so that they can kill them guilt free. Common tactic. Endorsed by pro-choice, pro-war, pro-death penalty, etc sort of folk. Dehumanize to kill. I find it sickening.
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Ok, it's a sick judgement to you. I suppose that's fair enough, but I cannot bring myself to care or take your feelings seriously enough to argue over it.
 
Meathead said:
Ok, it's a sick judgement to you. I suppose that's fair enough, but I cannot bring myself to care or take your feelings seriously enough to argue over it.
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That's fine. I'll uphold the high moral road, it's always been lonely.
 
Blue_State said:
I typically rate us higher than that, but I am a big homer like that.
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Whereas I'm much more a man of Principles rather than emotion.


Dittohead not! said:
Why do you hate America?
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Mostly because America is no longer what it was intended to be. It has lost the battle as the last great hope for humanity and shown that there is no circumstance where large groups of human beings can be expected to maintain a decent society when given the freedom to undermine that society.


PrometheusBound said:
The serial killer of teenagers, John Wayne Gacey, spent more time alive on Death Row than the lifetimes of his victims. If we can't have speedy and cheap executions, we should return to the idea of "paying one's debt to society" by letting these people free if they participate in risky medical research, which will save more lives than the condemned themselves took.
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Nah. I'm not for the medical research concept. I want these mofo's DEAD. As in buried within 48 hours of the time their one (and only) appeal is either denied or it confirms the original finding in the case. No more 10-20 year terms sitting on death row. Nice, quick, cheap, and efficient. I believe it was former Governor Bush who was once asked what he thought of the number of executions in Texas that year, and who responded.... "It's a good start."


Diogenes said:
Good point. As I recall, President Garfield's assassin was caught, tried, sentenced and executed within a span of 6 weeks. Back in the fifties, it was a national scandal when a convicted rapist/murderer spent 10 years on death row. And it seems like 20 years is now the norm. That doesn't seem like progress to me.
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Exactly. In fact it's the exact opposite of progress. It's mostly caused by the fact that we no longer have an expectation of lawfullness in this society, so we excuse many more criminals and have made it decidedly harder for LEO's and DA's to do their jobs.
 
Ikari said:
I think it's quite the opposite in fact.
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Powerful weakening persuaders make you believe what they made you feel. Bend over on command.
 
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PrometheusBound said:
Powerful weakening persuaders make you believe what they made you feel. Bend over on command.
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I don't even know what you're trying to say here. All I know is that human is human.
 
Ikari said:
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. All I know is that human is human.
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An amazing grasp of the obvious. And yet the value we place on them are necessarily different. My son's life is far more valuable to me than any other. The lives of people who make my world a better place is more value relatively to those who make it worse, again relatively. There are, in the extreme, those whose life have no value.

Saying that "All I know that human is human." is a simple tautology which has no practical meaning whatsoever and has no bearing on its worth.
 
Meathead said:
An amazing grasp of the obvious. And yet the value we place on them are necessarily different. My son's life is far more valuable to me than any other. The lives of people who make my world a better place is more value relatively to those who make it worse, again relatively. There are, in the extreme, those whose life have no value.

Saying that "All I know that human is human." is a simple tautology which has no practical meaning whatsoever and has no bearing on its worth.
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The values we place are for convenience and emotion. You of course would value your son’s life more than others due to the emotional attachment. Yet if it was your son or 20 other people, the rational answer is 20 other people. Your emotional sentiments are not actually part of accurate evaluation of worth. Human is human is a simple statement to equate all human life as equal; as it rationally is. Emotionally perchance not, rationally certainly true.

To value zero is not a measurement, but rather an emotional plea. X is so bad, he’s worse than a dog. Not actually true as no human is worth less than other animals. It is also used to excuse killing. It’s a way to sidestep morality and rational thought in order to act emotionally. If we want to kill human life, due to the complexities of our intelligence and morality; under normal circumstances we become conflicted and feel guilt. The point of trying to claim a human life is worthless is to avoid that. However, if one were to be truly “human”, they would embrace it and work it out.

Human is human. No way around it.
 
Ikari said:
The values we place are for convenience and emotion. You of course would value your son’s life more than others due to the emotional attachment. Yet if it was your son or 20 other people, the rational answer is 20 other people. Your emotional sentiments are not actually part of accurate evaluation of worth. Human is human is a simple statement to equate all human life as equal; as it rationally is. Emotionally perchance not, rationally certainly true.

To value zero is not a measurement, but rather an emotional plea. X is so bad, he’s worse than a dog. Not actually true as no human is worth less than other animals. It is also used to excuse killing. It’s a way to sidestep morality and rational thought in order to act emotionally. If we want to kill human life, due to the complexities of our intelligence and morality; under normal circumstances we become conflicted and feel guilt. The point of trying to claim a human life is worthless is to avoid that. However, if one were to be truly “human”, they would embrace it and work it out.

Human is human. No way around it.
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I am sorry, I am not idiotic enough to respond to something that makes little sense. I have clearly stated my case and unless you formulate a rebuttal which effectively contradicts it beyond the mathematical value of zero which is zero (another tautology), I really can't be bothered.

Seriously, there are legions of impotent posters with whom I cannot possibly have the time to deal with.
 
Meathead said:
I am sorry, I am not idiotic enough to respond to something that makes little sense. I have clearly stated my case and unless you formulate a rebuttal which effectively contradicts it beyond the mathematical value of zero which is zero (another tautology), I really can't be bothered.

Seriously, there are legions of impotent posters with whom I cannot possibly have the time to deal with.
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There was nothing unclear in my response. As I said, you are going to make these labels and make your evaulation of worth based on your emotional connections and desires. If you wish to kill someone, of course you're going to claim they are worthless. They aren't actually worthless, being human in and of itself has inherent worth. Human is human. But you'd rather disregard that such that you can excuse your killing without dealing with the guilt normally associated with doing so when acted by a rational individual.
 
Ikari said:
The values we place are for convenience and emotion. You of course would value your son’s life more than others due to the emotional attachment. Yet if it was your son or 20 other people, the rational answer is 20 other people. Your emotional sentiments are not actually part of accurate evaluation of worth. Human is human is a simple statement to equate all human life as equal; as it rationally is. Emotionally perchance not, rationally certainly true.

To value zero is not a measurement, but rather an emotional plea. X is so bad, he’s worse than a dog. Not actually true as no human is worth less than other animals. It is also used to excuse killing. It’s a way to sidestep morality and rational thought in order to act emotionally. If we want to kill human life, due to the complexities of our intelligence and morality; under normal circumstances we become conflicted and feel guilt. The point of trying to claim a human life is worthless is to avoid that. However, if one were to be truly “human”, they would embrace it and work it out.

Human is human. No way around it.
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So instead of the death penalty, what do you want to see happen to these people? Life in jail?
 
Blue_State said:
So instead of the death penalty, what do you want to see happen to these people? Life in jail?
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If a crime is grave enough to warrant life in prison, then yes. The death penalty itself is archaic, costs a lot more money than housing a prisoner for life, offers little additional safety to society at large, and innately consumes innocent life (life in general as well).
 
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