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Thread: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Court?

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So SCOTUS aren't "constitutional experts"? and please, by all means, please back up with links and arguments backing up your "most" claim. Furthermore, which specific precedents are you refering to? This argument lacks much substance.

    So I guess you missed this adamT?
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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Something which might never have occurred to this Constitutional scholar was that "unprecedented" "judicial activism" has occurred over 1,300 times in the history of the Republic.

    How many laws has the US Supreme Court declared unconstitutional

    All he had to do was google.
    The core problem with Obama's definition is that he basically stated that upholding the Constitution through judicial review, amounted to judicial activism.
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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The statement Zyphlin referenced was made by Obama in response to a reporter's question after his prepared remarks about the Republican's budget.
    So we should only now quote his teleprompter and not his response to any follow up questions?
    Last edited by Grant; 04-04-12 at 11:13 AM.

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So I guess you missed this adamT?
    So SCOTUS aren't "constitutional experts"? and please, by all means, please back up with links and arguments backing up your "most" claim. Furthermore, which specific precedents are you refering to? This argument lacks much substance.
    Sure, SC justices are constitutional experts. So is the President. I was obviously talking about independent experts. I recently posted a survey of former clerks to sitting justices and other attorneys who have argued before the SC bench. Only 35% thought the law would be overturned. Here's Charles Fried -- Reagan's former Solicitor General -- saying that, not only is the mandate constitutional, but Congress COULD in fact pass a law requiring people to buy broccoli: Harvard Law's Fried: A Broccoli Mandate is Constitutional - Forbes

    And some diverse opinions from other experts (discount the guy who represents the plaintiffs): Is the Health Care Law Unconstitutional? - NYTimes.com

    Akhil Amar, one of the preeminent constitutional law scholars in the country, defending the mandate: Akhil Reed Amar | Constitutional showdown - Los Angeles Times

    Lawrence Tribe, probably THE preeminent constitutional law scholar, defending the mandate: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/op...ribe.html?_r=1

    And Irwin Chemerinsky -- with Tribe and Amar, probably one of the top three conlaw experts in America -- defending the mandate: Opinion: Health care reform is constitutional - Erwin Chemerinsky - POLITICO.com

    Chemerinsky literally wrote the book that I used to study constitutional law.
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-04-12 at 11:19 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So we should only now quote his teleprompter and not his response to any follow up questions?
    You miss the point.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You miss the point.
    Perhaps I did.

    So what was your point in saying that "The statement Zyphlin referenced was made by Obama in response to a reporter's question after his prepared remarks about the Republican's budget"".?

    His response to reporters questions following his "prepared remarks"should not be taken seriously? Not be analyzed to harshly? Be ignored?

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Only 35% thought the law would be overturned.
    The wonders of statistics. Note that you stated "thought the law would be overturned" not whether or not that they "thought hte law should be overturned".

    I'd likely state if asked "Do you think Obama will be voted out" a clear "no" at this point. You'd get a yes from me if you asked "Do you think Obama should be voted out".

    If asked about the health care law and whether it would be overturned or not, I'd probably put more confidence in saying "no" prior to the trial then "yes". I expected 7 of the votes to be set in stone, 3 for not constitutional and 4 for constitutional. I figured there was an 8th vote that was likely to go for not constitutional but I could percieve possibly voting for constitutional. There was finally a 9th swing vote, and prior to questioning I would've had more confidence stating that the swing vote would fall on the side of "Constitutional". The fact that I think it would be overturned though doesn't necessarily mean I agree with such a decision from a constitutional stand point but rather am answering based on what I think the court will do.

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sure, SC justices are constitutional experts. So is the President. I was obviously talking about independent experts. I recently posted a survey of former clerks to sitting justices and other attorneys who have argued before the SC bench. Only 35% thought the law would be overturned. Here's Charles Fried -- Reagan's former Solicitor General -- saying that, not only is the mandate constitutional, but Congress COULD in fact pass a law requiring people to buy broccoli: Harvard Law's Fried: A Broccoli Mandate is Constitutional - Forbes

    And some diverse opinions from other experts (discount the guy who represents the plaintiffs): Is the Health Care Law Unconstitutional? - NYTimes.com

    Akhil Amar, one of the preeminent constitutional law scholars in the country, defending the mandate: Akhil Reed Amar | Constitutional showdown - Los Angeles Times

    Lawrence Tribe, probably THE preeminent constitutional law scholar, defending the mandate: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/op...ribe.html?_r=1

    And Irwin Chemerinsky -- with Tribe and Amar, probably one of the top three conlaw experts in America -- defending the mandate: Opinion: Health care reform is constitutional - Erwin Chemerinsky - POLITICO.com

    Chemerinsky literally wrote the book that I used to study constitutional law.


    hmm, so you claim "most", yet retort with 4..... A simple google finds other "experts" who disagree with you and your fantastic 4's assement....

    Why the health care reform law is unconstitutional - CNN.com


    I could easily find more, if you like, easily dispelling your myth of "most"....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The wonders of statistics. Note that you stated "thought the law would be overturned" not whether or not that they "thought hte law should be overturned".

    I'd likely state if asked "Do you think Obama will be voted out" a clear "no" at this point. You'd get a yes from me if you asked "Do you think Obama should be voted out".

    If asked about the health care law and whether it would be overturned or not, I'd probably put more confidence in saying "no" prior to the trial then "yes". I expected 7 of the votes to be set in stone, 3 for not constitutional and 4 for constitutional. I figured there was an 8th vote that was likely to go for not constitutional but I could percieve possibly voting for constitutional. There was finally a 9th swing vote, and prior to questioning I would've had more confidence stating that the swing vote would fall on the side of "Constitutional". The fact that I think it would be overturned though doesn't necessarily mean I agree with such a decision from a constitutional stand point but rather am answering based on what I think the court will do.
    Okay. Now address Amar, Tribe, and Chemerinsky, who are, I think most legal scholars would concede, the top three, or at least among the top five constitutional law scholars in the country. And Fried -- Reagan's Solicitor General.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama’s ‘Unprecedented’ Remarks: Is the President Running Against the Supreme Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    hmm, so you claim "most", yet retort with 4..... A simple google finds other "experts" who disagree with you and your fantastic 4's assement....

    Why the health care reform law is unconstitutional - CNN.com


    I could easily find more, if you like, easily dispelling your myth of "most"....
    Did I say that it was unanimous? No.

    How renowned is your expert? An associate professor at George Mason School of Law?

    A regular writer at "The Volohk Conspiracy"? "The Volokh Conspiracy is a blog which mostly covers United States legal and political issues, generally from a libertarian or conservative perspective."
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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