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Thread: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

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    Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Pretty amazing comments from the President. Weak arguments.

    Obama: Supreme Court won?t overturn health care law - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

    “We are confident that this will be upheld because it should be upheld,” Obama said at a joint news conference at the White House with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Mexican President Felipe Calderon.

    ...
    Overturning the law would be “an unprecedented, extraordinary step” since it was passed by a majority of members in the House and Senate,” he said. “I just remind conservative commentators that for years we’ve heard that the biggest problem is judicial activism or a lack of judicial restraint. That a group of people would somehow overturn a duly constituted and passed law. Well, this is a good example. And I’m pretty confident that this court will recognize that and not take that step.”




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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    He shouldn't count his chickens before they are hatched.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    What's he supposed to say? "Yeah, that'll probably get overturned."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    What's he supposed to say? "Yeah, that'll probably get overturned."
    He could have said something that doesn't fly in the face of his supposed reputation as a Constitutional Law expert, and barring that, something that isn't falsified by a five-minute Google search.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    He could have said something that doesn't fly in the face of his supposed reputation as a Constitutional Law expert, and barring that, something that isn't falsified by a five-minute Google search.
    There's a difference between being a Constitutional Law expert and knowing how the SCOTUS is going to vote, especially when the court is so evenly split. Tell me, if knowing how they'll vote is a criteria for being a reputable Constitutional Law expert, then why is every Constitutional Law expert brought on TV or other places to comment on the vote not calling it one way or another with any certainty? The best you'll hear is "I think they will probably do X."

    That's because Constitutional Law is about arguing what is Constitutional or not, its about knowing what can be argued as being Constitutional or not. Everyone who knows anything about the Constitution and its history knows it can be interrupted in very different and often contradictory ways depending on whos sitting on the bench.

    And last, Obama isn't acting nor speaking the role of an unparistan lawyer anymore. As you may or may not know, law(including Constitutional Law) isn't about partisanship as its supposed to apply to everyone equally and lawyers and judges are more often than not called upon not to give their own opinions but to argue or decide a certain way under the law. For example a lawyer may be assigned as public defense for a murderer who he knows is guilty, however its his duty to argue his innocence anyway he can using the law. His personal opinion on the issue is entirely irrelevant. Likewise a Judge is supposed to uphold the procedures of a court room and make sure the law is respected during a hearing or trial, regardless about how he feels about the law if someone is found guilty of it he has a duty to punish accordingly.

    President Obama, is not in that role anymore. As a law professor I would agree his opinion should be less bias, however being President he is allowed and expected a certain about of bias especially when it comes to his own creations. Why? Because his a politician, he's supposed to take stances, and have opinions about things including the law and his perspective on it. If you want to say he should be acting more lawyer-y then think of it like he's been hired to defend the law and regardless of his personal opinion on its merits or how the judge will rule, he has a duty to defend it till the end. I mean wouldn't you agree that a President in general should defend his own laws and actions?

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    There's a difference between being a Constitutional Law expert and knowing how the SCOTUS is going to vote, especially when the court is so evenly split. Tell me, if knowing how they'll vote is a criteria for being a reputable Constitutional Law expert, then why is every Constitutional Law expert brought on TV or other places to comment on the vote not calling it one way or another with any certainty? The best you'll hear is "I think they will probably do X."
    I didn't say it had anything to do with knowing how they'll vote.

    That's because Constitutional Law is about arguing what is Constitutional or not, its about knowing what can be argued as being Constitutional or not.
    Well, then he shouldn't have implied that the margin a law wins by in Congress has anything to do with constitutionality.

    As discussed in the other thread:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...ealth-law.html

    He said:

    I am confident the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically-elected congress.
    1) He should know that size of the voting majority has nothing to do with it.

    2) The law passed by a very slim margin, not a "strong majority."

    3) Laws passed with overwhelming majorities have nonetheless been struck down.

    (See the other thread for details.)

    So, he got a point on constitutionality wrong, and two factual points wrong. Did he know they were wrong? If so, it makes him a liar. If not, they're pretty simple and basic, not to mention easily knowable, so it puts paid to a lot of the fuss about his credentials as a constitutional expert.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    When he says things like "This law was passed by a majority of Congress" he's not making an argument to the SCOTUS, he's talking to the American people. Obviously for a law to even be questioned by the SCOTUS it had to have been passed by a majority of Congress, that argument would go nowhere in court as it applies to every single federal law. Again you're confusing political rhetoric or law arguments, he's not trying to sell the Constitutionality of the law to the American people he's trying to sell support for it, part of that supporting being its Constitutionality but sense the American people aren't justices nor have a legal background in most cases he wouldnt make a legal argument.

    You're confusing political arguments with legal arguments. Now granted he's trying to sell the American people a political argument as a legal one, but again he's a politician now not a lawyer.

    Also what he's saying aren't lies they are opinions, one can confident in an outcome and not be a liar. I could say for example "I'm confident that Obama will be re-elected" however if he is not, that doesn't make me a liar that means my confidence was misplaced. But again, thats different because I don't have a personal stake in it like he does. He has no other option because of the political role he is expect to act confident in a successful outcome, no politician will say they are not confident in the success of their argument or position and nor should you expect them to. For example Newt Gingrich is still talking like he'll be the nominee, why? Because he's still running for the nomination, how can he both run for the nomination while at the same time admitting that there's no chance of winning? He's not a liar, he just has a different opinion that granted isn't very supported but still is just an opinion.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    I don't think it's politically smart to challenge SCOTUS like he did.....

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I don't think it's politically smart to challenge SCOTUS like he did.....
    Nope, me neither. As the President himself pointed out, they're unelected.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I don't think it's politically smart to challenge SCOTUS like he did.....
    Very strange from a very well educated President.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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