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Thread: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Very strange from a very well educated President.
    Educated, yes, smart, no. He took on the Supremos as they are appointed not elected, and he said whatever the elected congress passes is law no matter what the constitution says. And he said it was passed by a major majority, but not one republican in the house or senate voted for it. This is the second time Obama has went after the Supremos, and I predict he will loose again. Obama is educated but he is still an idiot.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Educated, yes, smart, no. He took on the Supremos as they are appointed not elected, and he said whatever the elected congress passes is law no matter what the constitution says. And he said it was passed by a major majority, but not one republican in the house or senate voted for it. This is the second time Obama has went after the Supremos, and I predict he will loose again. Obama is educated but he is still an idiot.
    Could you be kind and point us in the general direction of that quote?

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Considering I have never heard him make a legal point, I think you are giving him too much credit. What you see may well be his level of understanding the constitution.
    I sincerely doubt that someone who taught Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago would have such a limited understanding of the Constitution or Constitutional Law.

    I also sincerely doubt you have the credentials to challenge his understanding of the Constitution, at least from what I've seen of your posts.

    But of course like I've said the Constitution is a framework under which laws are argued, the key isn't in what the Constitution actually says but what you can argue it means. That is why two arguments that both were ruled Constitutional can be contradictory, for example racial segregation was ruled to be both Constitutional and unconstitutional under the SAME amendment without the wording of the Constitution ever changing. So you're free to have your own opinions on this matter and who am I or anyone else to say they are wrong, although it would not be outside reason to suggest that when presented before the SCOTUS or another court that you're arguments may be weaker than others.

    That being said, I totally agree that if Obama was making the argument he is now before the court and to the court he would have no argument at all. My point is, he's not arguing before the court nor to the court, otherwise his argument would be different which is why we see his lawyer not touching on any of these points before the Court. You won't find the solicitor general telling the SCOTUS "Hey this was passed by majority" because that doesn't apply like you and Harshaw have said.

    And thanks to American for that excellent display of arrogant dismissal I was referring to either, he might as well have stuck his head in the sand and screamed "Not uh" till he was blue in the face.

    In closing I'd like to say I respect the difference of opinion here, I see your points and we agree more than we disagree. I only hope that if the tables were turned and this was a law you gentlemen agreed with you would be equally passionate in your critique of the President's political rhetoric to the people. If that is the case then I can respect you for your lack of bias in your opinion even if our opinions aren't in total agreement, if this is just partisanship for you two then I can't say I respect a double standard in that case.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    No, he said the "extraordinary" and "unprecedented" step was the Supreme Court overturning a law which had been passed by a strong majority. That's a factual statement, plain and simple. And it's false.
    Yes, unprecedented would be a falsehood. And a deliberate one I'm sure he is aware of but ignoring for the sake of making a stronger political argument to the American people. It would be a lie to tell people it was unprecedented. And I do have a problem with that.

    But at the same time I cannot be too angry with him because its so common in politics to make statements like that. But that's just my opinion.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I sincerely doubt that someone who taught Constitutional Law for 12 years at the University of Chicago would have such a limited understanding of the Constitution or Constitutional Law.

    I also sincerely doubt you have the credentials to challenge his understanding of the Constitution, at least from what I've seen of your posts.

    But of course like I've said the Constitution is a framework under which laws are argued, the key isn't in what the Constitution actually says but what you can argue it means. That is why two arguments that both were ruled Constitutional can be contradictory, for example racial segregation was ruled to be both Constitutional and unconstitutional under the SAME amendment without the wording of the Constitution ever changing. So you're free to have your own opinions on this matter and who am I or anyone else to say they are wrong, although it would not be outside reason to suggest that when presented before the SCOTUS or another court that you're arguments may be weaker than others.

    That being said, I totally agree that if Obama was making the argument he is now before the court and to the court he would have no argument at all. My point is, he's not arguing before the court nor to the court, otherwise his argument would be different which is why we see his lawyer not touching on any of these points before the Court. You won't find the solicitor general telling the SCOTUS "Hey this was passed by majority" because that doesn't apply like you and Harshaw have said.

    And thanks to American for that excellent display of arrogant dismissal I was referring to either, he might as well have stuck his head in the sand and screamed "Not uh" till he was blue in the face.

    In closing I'd like to say I respect the difference of opinion here, I see your points and we agree more than we disagree. I only hope that if the tables were turned and this was a law you gentlemen agreed with you would be equally passionate in your critique of the President's political rhetoric to the people. If that is the case then I can respect you for your lack of bias in your opinion even if our opinions aren't in total agreement, if this is just partisanship for you two then I can't say I respect a double standard in that case.
    My constitutional analysis is 100% party-free. Whoever gets it wrong, gets it wrong. I thought, and stated, that Bush declaring he considered McCain-Feingold unconstitutional, but signed it into law anyway, was arguably impeachable.

    But fact is fact and Obama got the facts wrong.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Yes, unprecedented would be a falsehood. And a deliberate one I'm sure he is aware of but ignoring for the sake of making a stronger political argument to the American people. It would be a lie to tell people it was unprecedented. And I do have a problem with that.

    But at the same time I cannot be too angry with him because its so common in politics to make statements like that. But that's just my opinion.
    If he has to "sell" it to the American people with a falsehood, then should he be "selling" it at all? Why not go with the truth? If you're right, you shouldn't have to make anything up.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    My constitutional analysis is 100% party-free. Whoever gets it wrong, gets it wrong. I thought, and stated, that Bush declaring he considered McCain-Feingold unconstitutional, but signed it into law anyway, was arguably impeachable.

    But fact is fact and Obama got the facts wrong.
    I can respect that, but I think you're overreacting a bit because what he's doing isn't so uncommon. However yes, parts of it are factually incorrect and he's giving that to the American people to make a political argument.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I can respect that, but I think you're overreacting a bit because what he's doing isn't so uncommon. However yes, parts of it are factually incorrect and he's giving that to the American people to make a political argument.
    How did I "overreact"? I made a pretty straightforward case.
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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    How did I "overreact"? I made a pretty straightforward case.
    You did. I just think you're language came out a little more hostile than I would have reacted towards it. But you are right. Don't read into it too much we're mostly agreeing.

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    Re: Obama: Supreme Court won’t overturn health care law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I can respect that, but I think you're overreacting a bit because what he's doing isn't so uncommon. However yes, parts of it are factually incorrect and he's giving that to the American people to make a political argument.
    Yeah, we all know that lying is good for the public.
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