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Thread: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in California

  1. #191
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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They'll be along soon enough. Wait until the Martin shooting runs out of gas; which will probably happen sooner than expected, so they can crawl all over this.
    Yep, better stock up on your guns and ammo now before it's too late!!

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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Hell Hound-
    just trying to get a handle on the level of combat experience you have. your shorthand for your duties and such are too truncated for me. I have a low IQ, I was 11B...

    Ockham-
    Never heard the term tactical murderer before, learn something new everyday. What most people forget is in this situation the gunman has his weapon out and up, the CCW has to draw from under the concealing clothes and present on target before the gunman watching you can react. It is a forlorn hope. Now perhaps you envision the situation as you are in another room and have time to present before stepping out into the hallway, but even that is a tough gunfight unless your room is behind him and you are very quiet, the hostages don't eyeball you hard enough to get his attention, etc.

    You don't want to spring out like on TV but pie the door.

    Next is what most civilians shy away from, you have to stand up straight, square up on the badguy and place the front sight on his chest and squeeze, lather rinse repeat. Tactics are simple and brutal, you literally stand your ground and engage in as calm a manner as you can manage knowing damn well you are going to get shot. It isn't a video game, it's front and center halt the threat even if you go down too.

    All the springing around, diving and rolling is for Hollywood. If you think it is a different way your kidding yourself.

  3. #193
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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I appreciate what your trying to show here, however, the first link is in virginia. That is not congress.
    I just read it. Definitely from the US House. It is in reference to the Virginia Tech shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. I would love to someone examine that possibility. But I suspect it's more complicated than that.
    I think it would be interesting to look at as well. Apart from a race standpoint, the pressure some youth are placed under to compete/succeed has to play some role, I'm sure. We live in a culture where failure and being 2nd best generally isn't acceptable (which isn't a bad thing for those emotionally capable of handling it). The pre-post adolescent years are very emotionally trying times for young people and the stress some might be placed under may be too much for them to comprehend or deal with without the intellectual wherewithal to know what is happening to them. From a personal example, I know that my two high school aged nieces feel far much more pressure to get good grades, wear the right clothes, be good at sports, stay involved, altogether reach for the top than I did when I was in high school AND the pressure started much earlier in school than for me. Schools seem to get far more cutthroat competitive every year to me and there isn't one entity you can blame for it...nowadays schools, parents, classmates, etc. all have an equal role, imo. You can never underestimate the influence of peers, though. Especially from 14-21. Hell I'm in my late 20s and still let the influence of others affect me at times and I don't even realize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It is fair to ask the question as to why it is so prominate here. I doubt it has anything to do with no guns on campus as many of those places don't have guns on campus either.
    There are obvious differences between the cultures and social attitudes of the majority of European countries and the United States that I believe answer the question. I don't know the proper solution anymore than anyone else here but I do not think it is false to claim that this type of violence and American culture today share some a link.
    Last edited by GoTim1985; 04-04-12 at 02:22 AM.
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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When would be a better time?

    I'm with Maggie on this one; we never see you complain when a Libbo posts something like this. Why is that?
    We never see you complain when a "Repub" posts something like this. Why is that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    We raise a nation of sheep, complete cowards, who when the wolf comes, instead of fighting shows them thier necks in submission. Then when wolves do what wolves do, what do we do? We find ways to keep sheep from figuring out how to defend themselves....

    This shooter apparently said "line up, I am going to kill you all"....shot these people then left, reloaded and came back, this all took place over 5 minutes. once again, we see people lining up for the slaughter and it makes me sick. I feel for these kids I do. But did any of them say "holy ****! that dood just shot 1,2,3,4...." then decide to fight?

    OVER 5 MINUTES! how many people would you see shot in a classroom before you did whatever you could to save your life and those around you... We are breeding the fight and self preservation out of our society, and the bodycount will only go up.....


    (this post won't go over well, Just watch).
    Reverend, I've seen you make posts like this before. You didn't know what you were talking about then and you don't now. This has nothing to do with creating a nation of cowards. It has to do with the psychology of how people react in situations of terror. Firstly, the time element is irrelevant. I myself, many years ago, did a study, that demonstrated that in situations of high stress, an individual cannot accurately gauge how long time is passing. Secondly, in situations of significant terror, like this one, people will react in one of three ways: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. The situation is irrelevant to this reaction. It is hardwired into the individual. Can it be altered? Somewhat, but not completely. In this situation, when you combine the terror of the situation, the inability to gauge time, and the likelihood, based on the response, that these folks "froze" because that's how they react, there was NOTHING cowardly about what occurred. It was a tragedy. Please stop blaming the victim.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #196
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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Reverend, I've seen you make posts like this before. You didn't know what you were talking about then and you don't now. This has nothing to do with creating a nation of cowards. It has to do with the psychology of how people react in situations of terror. Firstly, the time element is irrelevant. I myself, many years ago, did a study, that demonstrated that in situations of high stress, an individual cannot accurately gauge how long time is passing. Secondly, in situations of significant terror, like this one, people will react in one of three ways: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. The situation is irrelevant to this reaction. It is hardwired into the individual. Can it be altered? Somewhat, but not completely. In this situation, when you combine the terror of the situation, the inability to gauge time, and the likelihood, based on the response, that these folks "froze" because that's how they react, there was NOTHING cowardly about what occurred. It was a tragedy. Please stop blaming the victim.


    "freeze" is simply a manifestation of "flight".... that said, let me ask you a question. How long does the adrenal response that is fight or flight last?


    Much of what you say is correct regarding time passing, etc, however, it's irrelevant to my point. What you are incorrect about is it being only slightly alterable. I've made a life of "altering" this for people....


    One last thing... We see examples of "Flight", and "freeze", where was the "fight"? You said "one of three ways", I only saw two.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Shush now....
    no my friend. I will post in any thread I like.

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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by GoTim1985 View Post
    There are obvious differences between the cultures and social attitudes of the majority of European countries and the United States that I believe answer the question. I don't know the proper solution anymore than anyone else here but I do not think it is false to claim that this type of violence and American culture today share some a link.
    I don't either. I has to be part of the discussion.

    I will also say this, we do have students from this country who are under a lot of pressure to succeed. More are looking for the easy "C," to be sure. But those under pressure sometimes thrive, and sometimes crack. What I would like to see is the desire to learn and accomplish, but with the wisdom and self confidence to know that failure helps us grow. It is how we handle failure that defines us. Fearing it seems wrong headed. We should embrace it without surrendering to it.

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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Hell Hound-
    you have my attention, again I ask you just what have you done in the way of combat and apparently some sort of training for it.

    I would put freeze as a separate survival instinct. Many animals, prey and predator use freeze. Soldiers on patrol use freeze.

    The 'nation of cowards' stuff sounds like a late night rant at the VFW bar. The nation simply is as it always has been, a nation of non warriors, and even warriors have their moment of doubt and pain.

    I'm sure if you had been there the perp never stood a chance, if I had been there I doubt I'd have done much but died a little closer to the guy than the others. but to think a mixed bag of medical students would have instantly produced a lion is the stuff silly teen action movies are made of.

    I know yo at least think you are Action Jackson but tuck it back in. Roger that?

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    Re: 5 dead, suspect in custody in classroom shooting at Oikos University in Californi

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Hell Hound-
    you have my attention, again I ask you just what have you done in the way of combat and apparently some sort of training for it.
    1C4x1, I no longer get specific given incidents that have happened online regarding such. Feel free to ask around if you have your doubts about me.

    I would put freeze as a separate survival instinct. Many animals, prey and predator use freeze. Soldiers on patrol use freeze.

    The 'nation of cowards' stuff sounds like a late night rant at the VFW bar. The nation simply is as it always has been, a nation of non warriors, and even warriors have their moment of doubt and pain.

    I'm sure if you had been there the perp never stood a chance, if I had been there I doubt I'd have done much but died a little closer to the guy than the others. but to think a mixed bag of medical students would have instantly produced a lion is the stuff silly teen action movies are made of.

    I know yo at least think you are Action Jackson but tuck it back in. Roger that?

    Nah, these days the Good Reverend is a F.ormer A.ction G.uy, I just try and teach so that those "moments of doubt and pain" are minimized. as far as my chances? Maybe I end up dead, maybe not. The Good Reverend though, won't die on his knees.



    Oh btw, regarding your scenario to ockham, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-04-12 at 11:36 AM.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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