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Thread: Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    if that fellow had been at the DMV, dispensing his views to the assembled public about the problems he had with traffic enforcement provisions, then his speech would deserve to be protected
    but not when he is propagating a religious ideology
    What precisely is the difference and why should one be protected and not the other? As I understand it, free speech is free speech, period. Unless it's one of those yelling fire in a theater or inciting people to violence situations.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea. So if your for this then i guess your for the OWS protests right? Both didnt have the right to get arrested? Is that what you are saying?
    so long as they are not violating law.

    which btw crapping on police cars and littering are not forms of free speech.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    What precisely is the difference and why should one be protected and not the other? As I understand it, free speech is free speech, period. Unless it's one of those yelling fire in a theater or inciting people to violence situations.
    because one subjects those who are doing the government's business to unwelcome religious ideology they cannot avoid only because they are there conducting the government's business
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    because one subjects those who are doing the government's business to unwelcome religious ideology they cannot avoid only because they are there conducting the government's business
    *sigh* Bubba. The Constitution does not grant any protection from "unwelcome" religious ideology.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    *sigh* Bubba. The Constitution does not grant any protection from "unwelcome" religious ideology.
    but the Constitution does say that there is a wall separating the church and the state
    if i am doing the government's business then i have a right to not be subjected to religious ideology while conducting that state business
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    because one subjects those who are doing the government's business to unwelcome religious ideology they cannot avoid only because they are there conducting the government's business
    I was subjected to OWS business on more than one occasion while I was downtown conducting business.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    What precisely is the difference and why should one be protected and not the other? As I understand it, free speech is free speech, period. Unless it's one of those yelling fire in a theater or inciting people to violence situations.
    Didn't the US Supreme Court just rule on this concerning that asshole Hillsboro church shouting hate in religious context at a soldier's funeral? Not only could they NOT be arrested because they were on public land, they were not even breaking any civil law. This would be a slam-dunk lawsuit.

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but the Constitution does say that there is a wall separating the church and the state
    if i am doing the government's business then i have a right to not be subjected to religious ideology while conducting that state business
    So freedom of speech means a person can talk about ANYTHING they want EXCEPT religion, which is criminal and you go to jail for?

    You are confident that is what the "Founding Fathers" meant in freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Talk about religion except on your own property and you go to prison - otherwise say whatever you want.

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    Re: Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

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    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it is a government facility. doing the government's business. someone reading the Bible to them self is not a problem. but when anyone uses the government facility to proselytize ANY ideology, then that Constitutional separation between state and religion disappears
    it is apparent the proselytizer is only there because of the assembled crowd, which is there to satisfy government requirements, not become the audience for proselytization
    The Seperation of Church and State Clause only applies to the government...not a private citizen. You would have had a case if that preacher was working at the DMV. But he wasn't so you have no case.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    actually, you are wrong
    if i am required to be at DMV at the government's direction, the separation provision of the Constitution allows me to expect that i will not be subjected to religious proselytization while i am conducting the government's business
    because i am there doing the government's business, i do not have the option not to be there and be subjected to such religious propaganda - if the proselytizer is allowed to remain on site
    that would violate my right
    No one is required to go to the DMV. It is a choice to get a drivers license and/or put plates on a vehicle. My wife never once had to visit the DMV until she decided to get her license at the age of 31.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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