Page 4 of 35 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 344

Thread: Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

  1. #31
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Yeah let's perpetuate the myth shall we?
    Apparently the facts support the myth in this case. You may be able to dismiss it out of hand but I'm not. Perhaps the cop who arrested the guy should have thought about no perpetuating the myth.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #32
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,155

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    He was reading. Good luck trying to prove he was "proselytizing" along with proving whatever a "captive audience" is.
    the folks were not assembled on the government property as his audience
    they were there for other purposes
    which causes them to have been a captive audience

    the fellow was reading. had he been reading to himself, nothing would have been said
    it was when he began reading aloud that the proselytizing began
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  3. #33
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the folks were not assembled on the government property as his audience
    they were there for other purposes
    which causes them to have been a captive audience

    the fellow was reading. had he been reading to himself, nothing would have been said
    it was when he began reading aloud that the proselytizing began
    Maybe I'm just ignorant, but where in federal law does it make reference to "captive audiences" as a reason to restrict someone's first Amendment rights? There's a right to free speech in the Constitution. There is no right to not hear what you don't want to hear, or right to not be offended by something someone else is saying. And there's nothing wrong with proselytizing. If you don't like the message, don't listen and ignore it, or like me, put on some headphones.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #34
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 01:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    13,376

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    remember people free speech works both ways,you cant advocate it when is something you believe in then argue against it when its something you dont.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

  5. #35
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    remember people free speech works both ways,you cant advocate it when is something you believe in then argue against it when its something you dont.
    Yea. So if your for this then i guess your for the OWS protests right? Both didnt have the right to get arrested? Is that what you are saying?


  6. #36
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:30 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,569
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's public property, the state is incorrect in charging this guy with anything. The cop needs to be re-educated and go back to policeman school. A very interesting case as it demonstrates what others call a war on Christianity.
    He should not be an officer again. He arrested the man because he was a smart-ass who thinks he can arrest anyone for annoying him. Get rid of him. FAST.

  7. #37
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,155

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Maybe I'm just ignorant, but where in federal law does it make reference to "captive audiences" as a reason to restrict someone's first Amendment rights?
    it is a government facility. doing the government's business. someone reading the Bible to them self is not a problem. but when anyone uses the government facility to proselytize ANY ideology, then that Constitutional separation between state and religion disappears
    it is apparent the proselytizer is only there because of the assembled crowd, which is there to satisfy government requirements, not become the audience for proselytization

    There's a right to free speech in the Constitution.
    there is
    and there is also a separation of church and state in the Constitution
    and the police enforced such separation by requiring such proselytization to be other than at that government facility
    they even advised the proselytizer that he could exercise his first amendment right on private property - just not on the government property
    There is no right to not hear what you don't want to hear, or right to not be offended by something someone else is saying. And there's nothing wrong with proselytizing. If you don't like the message, don't listen, or like me, put on some headphones.
    actually, you are wrong
    if i am required to be at DMV at the government's direction, the separation provision of the Constitution allows me to expect that i will not be subjected to religious proselytization while i am conducting the government's business
    because i am there doing the government's business, i do not have the option not to be there and be subjected to such religious propaganda - if the proselytizer is allowed to remain on site
    that would violate my right

    now, if macys or 7-11 or some other private enterprise sanctions such proselytizer to use their property to engage in such religious proselytization i can adopt the option of leaving in order to avoid that message communicated by a first amendment right
    such would not be true at the DMV
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #38
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it is a government facility. doing the government's business. someone reading the Bible to them self is not a problem. but when anyone uses the government facility to proselytize ANY ideology, then that Constitutional separation between state and religion disappears
    it is apparent the proselytizer is only there because of the assembled crowd, which is there to satisfy government requirements, not become the audience for proselytization


    there is
    and there is also a separation of church and state in the Constitution
    and the police enforced such separation by requiring such proselytization to be other than at that government facility
    they even advised the proselytizer that he could exercise his first amendment right on private property - just not on the government property

    actually, you are wrong
    if i am required to be at DMV at the government's direction, the separation provision of the Constitution allows me to expect that i will not be subjected to religious proselytization while i am conducting the government's business
    because i am there doing the government's business, i do not have the option not to be there and be subjected to such religious propaganda - if the proselytizer is allowed to remain on site
    that would violate my right

    now, if macys or 7-11 or some other private enterprise sanctions such proselytizer to use their property to engage in such religious proselytization i can adopt the option of leaving in order to avoid that message communicated by a first amendment right
    such would not be true at the DMV
    A private citizen proselytizing on public property has jack to do with separation of church and state. The Establishment Clause would be at issue if, for instance, employees at the DMV began hanging "Jesus is da bomb, all praise be to Jesus" signs. That's not what's happening here.

    I mean, seriously. Isn't every form of public protest, rally, or demonstration effectively some sort of "proselytization," if not necessarily about religion?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #39
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,155

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    A private citizen proselytizing on public property has jack to do with separation of church and state. The Establishment Clause would be at issue if, for instance, employees at the DMV began hanging "Jesus is da bomb, all praise be to Jesus" signs. That's not what's happening here.

    I mean, seriously. Isn't every form of public protest, rally, or demonstration effectively some sort of "proselytization," if not necessarily about religion?
    if that fellow had been at the DMV, dispensing his views to the assembled public about the problems he had with traffic enforcement provisions, then his speech would deserve to be protected
    but not when he is propagating a religious ideology
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #40
    Sage
    soccerboy22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    A warm place
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    10,723

    Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

    And they were arrested for not having permits, not because of what they were saying.

    But according to Lt. Michael Soubirous of the San Gorgonio Pass CHP Station, which oversees the Hemet area, the men were arrested because they didn’t have a permit.

    “The whole thing is, when you go to the DMV, you are not allowed to do any other business,” Soubirous told the Banning-Beaumont Patch. He said a permit is required on state property for anything other than the intended business.

    “We would have granted them a permit to go out and preach,” Soubirous explained. “There is a mechanism to be allowed to protest…We don‘t inhibit people’s right to free speech–we regulate it.”
    Man Arrested Outside Calif. DMV for Reading His Bible Out Loud | Video | TheBlaze.com
    Boston: City of Champions. New England Patriots: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2014, and 2016 Boston Red Sox: 2004, 2007 and 2013 Boston Celtics: 2008 Boston Bruins: 2011 Boston University Men's Hockey: 2008



Page 4 of 35 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •