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Taking Liberties: Arrested for reading the Bible?

Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Zyphlin said:
No one seems to know if this was done on public or private property. There's a lot of apparent mind readers in this thread that THINK they know for sure one way or another, but there seems to be conflicting legitimate evidence deeming it as a definitive fact either way
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There's also a lot of apparent hypocrites who only require one side of the issue to verify statements and not all of them.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Zyphlin said:
Really? You state it was on a public sidewalk based on? Your initial article doesn't state this. Where are you getting that he was on a public sidewalk?
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I was responding to one of the posts in this thread. I said "If". If it isn't a public sidewalk, then let's determine if it is or not. I don't know. Do you?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Ikari said:
If it were done on private property, it's up to the property owner to make the decision. If it was done on public land, I still have a hard time seeing the fault.
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Private property, yeah its not as big of a question. Public land, there's a lot of balls in the air on that. I do understand the notion that not all land that is "publicly owned" is subject to people being able to do whatever they want whenever they want on it. And I'm far from an expert on the notion of the legalities of permits for activities at things like a park or other such thing. As I said in my early post....if they let political crazies rant and rave about things at the DMV, this guy should be able to as well. However, if they don't let ANYONE begin their activities until the DMV opens or requires a permit, then at the very least this is less of an issue of "OMG THEY STOPPED A CHRISTIAN" and more that they just followed the laws/rules. At which case, yeah...an argument can be made those laws/rules are dumb, but the entire angle of "OMG WAR ON CHRISTIANS" is bull**** and just people using this for their political ends rather than having an actual issue with the laws.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Zyphlin said:
Private property, yeah its not as big of a question. Public land, there's a lot of balls in the air on that. I do understand the notion that not all land that is "publicly owned" is subject to people being able to do whatever they want whenever they want on it. And I'm far from an expert on the notion of the legalities of permits for activities at things like a park or other such thing. As I said in my early post....if they let political crazies rant and rave about things at the DMV, this guy should be able to as well. However, if they don't let ANYONE begin their activities until the DMV opens or requires a permit, then at the very least this is less of an issue of "OMG THEY STOPPED A CHRISTIAN" and more that they just followed the laws/rules. At which case, yeah...an argument can be made those laws/rules are dumb, but the entire angle of "OMG WAR ON CHRISTIANS" is bull**** and just people using this for their political ends rather than having an actual issue with the laws.
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I disagree. There is a war on traditional Christian America. We also have a "War on Women" and "Blacks are under attack".

Haven't you heard? The USA has become a very violent nation since Obama was elected President.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Ockham said:
Here's where you eat crow:

Post #165 - link provided by guess who… soccer boy.
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Thanks. I was confused since your post talked about the "OP Report" not "Soccerboy's report".

Now, from your own quote, did you notice these words?

According to a news release from Advocates for Faith & Freedom, the men believed that they had a First Amendment right to free speech as they were standing in a planter within the parking lot and were located on public property.
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I fully admit perhaps I'm reading that incorrectly, but it seems to be suggesting that the men BELIEVED they were standing on public property. Not that it absolutely WAS public property. The men BELIEVED they weren't doing anything wrong either, but at this point that seems rather up in the air as well. They hardly seem like expert judges.

So, since it was no absolute, and it was included in the link by the person you don't seem to have the same questions for
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Why should I ask soccer boy to proven is absolute? You already asked that. I was commenting more on the fact that you were doing no different than he, yet demanding something of him that you yourself hadn't provided. The demand that he produce fact has already been put out there by yourself, there was no reason to repeat that. However, no such request that I saw was made to you.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
I disagree. There is a war on traditional Christian America. We also have a "War on Women" and "Blacks are under attack".

Haven't you heard? The USA has become a very violent nation since Obama was elected President.
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this thread has NOTHING to do with your arch nemesis, Barack Obama.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Ockham said:
There's also a lot of apparent hypocrites who only require one side of the issue to verify statements and not all of them.
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You shouldn't be so hard on yourself for only demanding soccer boy do something you yourself didn't want to do.

It'd be nice if both sides verified why they want to claim with certainty that it was public or private property. It just happened that I had seen only one side that had already been called to provide evidence prior to my post.
 
So which is it, public or private property?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
I disagree. There is a war on traditional Christian America. We also have a "War on Women" and "Blacks are under attack".

Haven't you heard? The USA has become a very violent nation since Obama was elected President.
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No, you perceive a war on traditional Christian America because you have this idea that your particular religion should be treated special above all others. News flash: Other people don't want your religion forced on them. Or any religion. Keep it out of our schools. Keep it out of our laws. You know why? If the crazy rules from your ancient holy book can be made law, so can crazy rules from all the other ancient holy books.

The idea that Islam is given special treatment is just laughable.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Zyphlin said:
Thanks. I was confused since your post talked about the "OP Report" not "Soccerboy's report".
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Ok.

Zyphlin said:
Now, from your own quote, did you notice these words?

I fully admit perhaps I'm reading that incorrectly, but it seems to be suggesting that the men BELIEVED they were standing on public property. Not that it absolutely WAS public property. The men BELIEVED they weren't doing anything wrong either, but at this point that seems rather up in the air as well. They hardly seem like expert judges.
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It's certainly plausible they may have believed that. I wouldn't think either of them would know with certainty.

Zyphlin said:
Why should I ask soccer boy to proven is absolute? You already asked that. I was commenting more on the fact that you were doing no different than he, yet demanding something of him that you yourself hadn't provided. The demand that he produce fact has already been put out there by yourself, there was no reason to repeat that. However, no such request that I saw was made to you.
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This may be the reason why:

soccerboy22 said:
That is not quite true, because the DMV is state property, not public.
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soccerboy22 said:
From my understanding, they were still in the DMV parking lot though, which still does not put them on public property.
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So essentially I asked soccerboy22 to do the same thing you did to me, which was to provide some evidence of the absolute statement that the DMV parking lot was state property - sans the accusations, which looked like this:

Ockham said:
Link showing the parking lot is DMV property?
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One would expect if you saw absolute statements incorrectly in my quotes - you'd at least see the same absolute statements in soccerboy22's quotes. Somehow you missed those though. I've noticed your attempts to accuse me of hypocrisy more than a few times... and not just in this thread. The ironic thing is in this instance, it seems to have the opposite reflection.


So why again didn't you demand soccerboy22 provide evidence the DMV parking lot was state owned again?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Deuce said:
No, you perceive a war on traditional Christian America because you have this idea that your particular religion should be treated special above all others. News flash: Other people don't want your religion forced on them. Or any religion. Keep it out of our schools. Keep it out of our laws. You know why? If the crazy rules from your ancient holy book can be made law, so can crazy rules from all the other ancient holy books.

The idea that Islam is given special treatment is just laughable.
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Can I assume you disagree with this section of the US Constitution....."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
Can I assume you disagree with this section of the US Constitution....."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
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See what I mean? "Your religion can't become law of the land," to you, translates as "you can't practice your religion."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Zyphlin said:
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself for only demanding soccer boy do something you yourself didn't want to do.
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Usually when one makes a statement of fact, and that fact is in doubt - in this case doubted by me - the burden of proving that fact is by the person making the statement of fact. Since I made no such statement other than as referenced in the links provided.. I had no reason nor requirement to provide anything. Which you already know.

Zyphlin said:
It'd be nice if both sides verified why they want to claim with certainty that it was public or private property. It just happened that I had seen only one side that had already been called to provide evidence prior to my post.
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I agree. I've been looking for the Riverside County docket # to see if there are court documents that could actually shed some light on the charges but I haven't been able to find them, nor have I really had an opportunity to dedicate time to finding them and not sure it's really worth it.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Deuce said:
See what I mean? "Your religion can't become law of the land," to you, translates as "you can't practice your religion."
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You didn't answer my question. Do you disagree or agree with the US Constitution. What does "free exercise thereof" mean to you?
 
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Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
You didn't answer my question. Do you disagree or agree with the US Constitution. What does "free exercise thereof" mean to you?
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Free speech HAS limitations. If I want to yell fire in a crowded theater and there is no fire, can my free speech be limited? Yes, it can be.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
You didn't answer my question. Do you disagree or agree with the US Constitution?
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the USC does not allow the govt. to pass any laws that respect or attack any establishment of religion.

Free Exercise doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want, in the name of Vishnu or Krishna.
 
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Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

TheNextEra said:
Free speech HAS limitations. If I want to yell fire in a crowded theater and there is no fire, can my free speech be limited? Yes, it can be.
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That doesn't have anything to do with this......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
What is "misleading" about the thread title?
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The title is misleading. He wasn't "reading the Bible" he was preaching, he was reading aloud as many ministers and preachers do on Sunday in church. You could have said he was reading from the Bible if you wanted a short title, that would have been closer to the truth.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
That doesn't have anything to do with this......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
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you don't have the right to preach the Koran anywhere, anytime, anyday you like.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Thunder said:
the USC does not allow the govt. to pass any laws that respect or attack any establishment of religion.

Free Exercise doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want, in the name of Vishnu or Krishna.
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What does this mean......or prohibit the free exercise thereof
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Neal N. Bloeme said:
That doesn't have anything to do with this......"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
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Government is doing that right now! They are REQUIRING religious orginizations to provide birth control for their employees even though that goes against the teaching of said religion.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Dpetty said:
Government is doing that right now! They are REQUIRING religious orginizations to provide birth control for their employees even though that goes against the teaching of said religion.
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I agree. Govt is out of control and the people need to rise up and kick these people out.
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

Thunder said:
it doesn't mean what u want it to mean.
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Then tell us what it means. What did the men who put it in there mean?
 
Re: Man Arrested For Reading The Bible Out Loud

The freedom to express one's religion is routinely infringed, your rights can not trump another's, wrapping obnoxious behavior up in religion still doesn't work.

Parking lots are funny places, like sidewalks they have public assess but are the responsibility of the property owner. A lot depends on the local ordinances. Not some big bad nanny state but local folks, business owners much worshiped in 'conservative' circles as the Job Creators who don't like, want or need disturbances. Don't blame liberals or Obama for the disturbing the peace ordinances, it is quite conservative business men who routinely support such laws.

Then again many 'conservatives' were quite insistent a Muslim Cultural Center shouldn't be located so close to Ground Zero. It might be more a case of which religion or maybe more on target, a good rock to throw when railing against big brother, the nanny state, socialists destroying Gawd, and the tripe that gets flung at such times...
 
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