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Thread: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Ilyich View Post
    It was a series of poor decisions by two men that led to this unfortunate shooting.

    I blame Democrats insofar as they continue to foster an environment where we all have to tread carefully around black people. We're talking about a case where Zimmerman's account is substantiated by eye witnesses, medical treatment, and general observations by the police but is still dragging on because they could all be racist. It sure looks like this case is going to surpass even the OJ Simpson trial and investigation into the Duke lacrosse players in terms of ridiculousness. I keep hoping a prominent Democrat will come forward and say "hey, enough with the nonsense!" but none seems to want to bite the hand that feeds it.
    Wild oversimplification of the facts.

    1. The lead investigator suggested prosecution, and the prosecutor's office decided against it.
    2. Zimmerman DID kill Martin--it's not like its made up or anything.
    3. A family RIGHTLY wants to see this case go to trial.
    4. Initially it WAS NOT going to go to trial.
    5. Most people think that it is pretty strange, that somehow a possible murder does not go to trial at all. This seems strange whether race is at issue or not.
    6. The fact that The Sanford PD has had trouble with Race issues in the past, certainly plays some role in the reasonable suspicion (even if false) that something strange is going on in this case.
    7. The SYG law is not something that most people understand, and--I think--reasonably so. It really doesn't make much sense to me.
    8. The fact that Sharpton and Jessie Jackson joined in, does make things even more unnecessarily racially charged--BUT--had this much attention not come to the case, the case may well have never gotten a thorough investigation.
    9. Some people think "Wow, why should this case get so much attention?" Other people think "Wow, why should it take so much media attention just to get basic justice?"

    10. As I've said before: What we have here, my friends, is a world-class cluster****.


    Welcome to Democracy.
    Last edited by Res Cogitans; 03-28-12 at 04:29 PM.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
    -- Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Cogitans View Post
    Wild oversimplification of the facts.

    1. The lead investigator suggested prosecution, and the prosecutor's office decided against it.
    2. Zimmerman DID kill Martin--it's not like its made up or anything.
    3. A family RIGHTLY wants to see this case go to trial.
    4. Initially it WAS NOT going to go to trial.
    5. Most people think that it is pretty strange, that somehow a possible murder does not go to trial at all. This seems strange whether race is at issue or not.
    6. The fact that The Sanford PD has had trouble with Race issues in the past, certainly plays some role in the reasonable suspicion (even if false) that something strange is going on in this case.
    7. The SYG law is not something that most people understand, and--I think--reasonably so. It really doesn't make much sense to me.
    8. The fact that Sharpton and Jessie Jackson joined in, does make things even more unnecessarily racially charged--BUT--had this much attention not come to the case, the case may well have never gotten a thorough investigation.
    9. Some people think "Wow, why should this case get so much attention?" Other people think "Wow, why should it take so much media attention just to get basic justice?"

    10. As I've said before: What we have here, my friends, is a world-class cluster****.


    Welcome to Democracy.
    The case shouldn't be going to trial at all though.

    The Trayvon Martin thread is quickly approaching 200 pages, if it hasn't already, but the only knock against his statements is "how do we know everyone involved isn't just racist?". This is an argument that works for black people alone but the better question is "what makes you begin to suspect all these people of racism?". That's not a question that needs to be answered though.

    Trayvon Martin was shot while he was smashing a Hispanic man's skull into the concrete. Eye witness accounts and forensic evidence back this up yet it's politically incorrect to say so. Instead we have to continue with the narrative that an 8 year old kid dressed in his football uniform was innocently gunned down in the street by a white supremacist whose white supremacist friends then concocted an elaborate cover up. It is idiotic and someone needs to say so.
    Last edited by Peter Ilyich; 03-28-12 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Rephrasing

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Ilyich View Post
    The case shouldn't be going to trial at all though.

    The Trayvon Martin thread is quickly approaching 200 pages, if it hasn't already, but the only knock against his statements is "how do we know everyone involved isn't just racist?" and this sort of logic only applies to black people in this country. When was the last time you heard someone question evidence against Asians or Caucasians on the grounds that everyone is just racist against them?
    You must not be paying attention. Or you just have selective hearing. But for many people--myself included--the issue with this case has nothing to do with race. And the fact that you are ONLY hearing race might tell you a little bit about these things.

    Beyond that, law enforcement IS the last powerful bastion of racism in the united states, so it should be no surprise that it is in these kinds of cases, this is where the concern comes up. The fact that Sanford county's PD has had some weird racial issues in the past doesn't help anything, but I STILL don't think that that is the MOST important factor here.

    The most important factor is that it is obvious, to many of us, that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman--an adult--hadn't initated a confrontation with Martin--a minor.

    And the idea that an adult can start a confrontation with a teenager, start losing a fight with him, and shoot the kid in self-defense seems pretty crazy to most of us.

    I honestly can't imagine people defending Zimmerman so vehemently in these circumstances if the other political factors weren't involved.

    Since when do people RUSH to the defense of a killer? people ALWAYS rush to convict KNOWN killers. There is nothing abnormal about that.

    There is something strange about RUSHING to the defense of a known killer, and RUSHING to defend his claim to self-defense. especially when all of the facts haven't come out.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
    -- Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    yeah, he's really a libertarian, he's no liberal.
    So if you don't support the libertarian position (the smaller the government the better) in every instance, you're not really a libertarian?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Cogitans View Post
    You must not be paying attention. Or you just have selective hearing. But for many people--myself included--the issue with this case has nothing to do with race. And the fact that you are ONLY hearing race might tell you a little bit about these things.

    Beyond that, law enforcement IS the last powerful bastion of racism in the united states, so it should be no surprise that it is in these kinds of cases, this is where the concern comes up. The fact that Sanford county's PD has had some weird racial issues in the past doesn't help anything, but I STILL don't think that that is the MOST important factor here.

    The most important factor is that it is obvious, to many of us, that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman--an adult--hadn't initated a confrontation with Martin--a minor.

    And the idea that an adult can start a confrontation with a teenager, start losing a fight with him, and shoot the kid in self-defense seems pretty crazy to most of us.

    I honestly can't imagine people defending Zimmerman so vehemently in these circumstances if the other political factors weren't involved.

    Since when do people RUSH to the defense of a killer? people ALWAYS rush to convict KNOWN killers. There is nothing abnormal about that.

    There is something strange about RUSHING to the defense of a known killer, and RUSHING to defend his claim to self-defense. especially when all of the facts haven't come out.
    That is exactly what I'm talking about though.

    Trayvon Martin was shot while he was smashing a Hispanic man's skull into the concrete. Eye witness accounts and forensic evidence back this up yet it's politically incorrect to say so. Instead we have to continue with the narrative that an 8 year old kid dressed in his football uniform was innocently gunned down in the street by a white supremacist whose white supremacist friends then concocted an elaborate cover up. It is idiotic and someone needs to say so.

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Ilyich View Post
    That is exactly what I'm talking about though.

    Trayvon Martin was shot while he was smashing a Hispanic man's skull into the concrete. Eye witness accounts and forensic evidence back this up yet it's politically incorrect to say so. Instead we have to continue with the narrative that an 8 year old kid dressed in his football uniform was innocently gunned down in the street by a white supremacist whose white supremacist friends then concocted an elaborate cover up. It is idiotic and someone needs to say so.
    Its funny how you don't even care that everything that you are saying is exaggerated.

    1. Unless it happened in the last 15 mins or so, Forensic evidence hasn't even been released on this case, so I don' know where you got the idea that it is all so obvious.

    2. No eye witness said that they saw Martin "smashing" Zimmmerman's skull into the concrete. The eyewitness said that Martin was on top of Zimmerman--that's it. Zimmerman is the one who claimed that his head was being smashed. Apparently Martin was smashing it so badly that Z didn't even need to go to the hospital that night.

    3. Even in Martin's recent photos he has a babyface--and who cares anyway. Even if the media has spun this story out of control, it doesn't make the real complexities of the case irrelevant.

    4. We know that Zimmerman approached Martin initially, and that from the time that Martin lost phone contact with his girlfriend, (presumably when the fight started) AND WHEN POLICE ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, less than a minute had passed.



    All these are facts, all these facts make your story sound like a fairy tale (becasue it is). The media has ****ed this thing all up, but that doesn't mean you have to throw sense and reason out the window and just **** it up in the other direction.
    Last edited by Res Cogitans; 03-28-12 at 05:39 PM.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
    -- Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And that's a legitimate point IMO. The Dems make pussy's look tough.
    Sort of, but that can be said of the Republican party as well, however, the Left wouldn't see that. They would only see it as the U.S. being too far pulled to the Right, therefore, the compromise on the Right does not really exist.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Cogitans View Post
    The next thing you know the debate is going to be about gays and abortion...
    They were gay lovers and Martin forced Zim to get an abortion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    2. No eye witness said that they saw Martin "smashing" Zimmmerman's skull into the concrete. The eyewitness said that Martin was on top of Zimmerman--that's it. Zimmerman is the one who claimed that his head was being smashed. Apparently Martin was smashing it so badly that Z didn't even need to go to the hospital that night.
    The eyewitness statement and the fact that his head had been bashed into the ground.

    4. We know that Zimmerman approached Martin initially, and that from the time that Martin lost phone contact with his girlfriend, (presumably when the fight started) AND WHEN POLICE ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, less than a minute had passed.
    No. We know that Zimmerman was looking for Martin and per the 911 call we know that Zimmerman had lost Martin and didnt know where he was.

    Martins GF a few days later said zimmerman had approached martin, zimmerman said right after the fact that Martin approached him. We don't know which is true. So please dont say that we do. But based on the 911 calls, zimmermans version seems more likely.

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    Re: Bill Maher Blames "The Democrats" For Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Cogitans View Post
    Its funny how you don't even care that everything that you are saying is exaggerated.

    1. Unless it happened in the last 15 mins or so, Forensic evidence hasn't even been released on this case, so I don' know where you got the idea that it is all so obvious.

    2. No eye witness said that they saw Martin "smashing" Zimmmerman's skull into the concrete. The eyewitness said that Martin was on top of Zimmerman--that's it. Zimmerman is the one who claimed that his head was being smashed. Apparently Martin was smashing it so badly that Z didn't even need to go to the hospital that night.

    3. Even in Martin's recent photos he has a babyface--and who cares anyway. Even if the media has spun this story out of control, it doesn't make the real complexities of the case irrelevant.

    4. We know that Zimmerman approached Martin initially, and that from the time that Martin lost phone contact with his girlfriend, (presumably when the fight started) AND WHEN POLICE ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, less than a minute had passed.



    All these are facts, all these facts make your story sound like a fairy tale (becasue it is). The media has ****ed this thing all up, but that doesn't mean you have to throw sense and reason out the window and just **** it up in the other direction.
    It's horrendous how cavalier you are about seeing Zimmerman charged when you're so ignorant of the facts.

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