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Thread: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

  1. #121
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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Oh well, I guess you can't be Number One in everything....

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    You seem to believe that scale should be a factor. If it happens even once, that is one time too many. If it is prevented from happening by the execution of a murderer, even once, then it has contributed to the safety of society.
    Scale is a system, as low probability events to dot excuse large encompassing uses of government force. The death penalty innately consumes innocent life, as well as life in general. And since it provides no additional security for society at large; there is no logical reason to keep it. Cost is too large and the gains too little.
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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Because a man can be exonerated, released, and compensated for what the state has done. It is terrible, but there is some room for restitution. There is none if the man is dead. If someone is locked up for life and wants to end they can off themselves. The state does not have the right to kill them.
    we're going in circles here

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You don't think it's reasonable to expect a police officer to verify that someone does in fact comprehend the Miranda warning as read to them?
    Nope. No more than I would expect a French police officer to determine whether or not I spoke French if I were to be arrested in Paris. If you are coming to this country, or even moreso if you live here, and you don't speak the language, YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is a fairly stupid and intellectually dishonest argument. At the point at which you drop these forms of hysterics is the point at which we can have a real dialog. Until then, have fun with your crazy; but I ain't interested.
    There is no real dialogue on issues like this. There never has been and never will be. Nor should there be.

  5. #125
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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Global executions? Are we still executing globes without a fair trial?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Nope. No more than I would expect a French police officer to determine whether or not I spoke French if I were to be arrested in Paris. If you are coming to this country, or even moreso if you live here, and you don't speak the language, YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!!
    You might, might have a point if English was designated the official language and everyone was required by law to speak it, but neither is true. Furthermore, one of the things we as a nation pride ourselves on is how people come here from other parts of the world to start a new life for themselves -- it stands to reason, barring the aforementioned legal requirements, that some portion of those people aren't going to speak English (or at least speak it well).

    Even if this country didn't proudly describe itself as a nation of immigrants and even if fluency in English was required by law, making sure someone understands what you are telling them is a basic (almost atomic) component of communication. There are plenty of circumstances under which someone would simply be too stunned or shocky or otherwise medically incapable of understanding what they're being told, and folks in those situations have Constitutional rights, too.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Global executions? Are we still executing globes without a fair trial?
    Oh, no, they all get a well rounded trial, and pi for dessert for their last meal.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You might, might have a point if English was designated the official language and everyone was required by law to speak it, but neither is true. Furthermore, one of the things we as a nation pride ourselves on is how people come here from other parts of the world to start a new life for themselves -- it stands to reason, barring the aforementioned legal requirements, that some portion of those people aren't going to speak English (or at least speak it well).
    I pride myself on the fact that when my relatives came here from Europe they already spoke English. I would not even consider visiting a country, nevermind moving there if I was not fluent in the primary language of the country. It's utterly disrespectful so far as I am concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Even if this country didn't proudly describe itself as a nation of immigrants and even if fluency in English was required by law, making sure someone understands what you are telling them is a basic (almost atomic) component of communication. There are plenty of circumstances under which someone would simply be too stunned or shocky or otherwise medically incapable of understanding what they're being told, and folks in those situations have Constitutional rights, too.
    Don't get yourself in trouble, and there won't be any trouble, now will there? I have no compassion or sympathy for criminals, whether accidental or intentional. I never have and never will.

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I pride myself on the fact that when my relatives came here from Europe they already spoke English. I would not even consider visiting a country, nevermind moving there if I was not fluent in the primary language of the country. It's utterly disrespectful so far as I am concerned.
    There are many circumstances under which someone might come to America without a working knowledge of English -- to escape tyranny or economic destitution in the hopes of making a better life for themselves being only two of the chief examples. Americans, in general, are fairly forgiving of visitors and immigrants who have difficulty with the language -- if they make the effort, we do our best to help them. That's one of the things I like about this country.

    Regardless, we aren't talking about respect or manners or taste or anything like that. We're talking about legal matters. English is not the official language, we are not legally required to be fluent in English, and simple common sense dictates that when you are issuing a warning required by the Supreme Court you should make a good faith effort to ensure that your intended audience is able to understand you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Don't get yourself in trouble, and there won't be any trouble, now will there? I have no compassion or sympathy for criminals, whether accidental or intentional. I never have and never will.
    There are literally so many criminal statutes and regulations with criminal penalties that even the government can't tell us how many there are. Furthermore, when it comes to regulations the people who write the regulations (bureaucrats) are not the people responsible for enforcing them (prosecutors). As such, the people who write the regulations (who should, common sense dictates, be the most familiar with them) have no power to give any concrete guidance on how we can actually obey them.

    Add to that the fact that prosecutors have in the past couple of decades taken to interpreting the body of law and regulation as creatively as possible so as to apply those laws and regulations as widely as possible -- far beyond the original intent -- so as to maximize the number of convictions, and you have a system where nobody knows the full body of the law, the people who write it can't be asked for advice on how to obey it, and those who enforce it are more interested in sheer numbers than they are in actual justice.

    "Don't get yourself in trouble" is not only inadequate advice, it completely ignores the realities of our criminal justice system.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Report: US Ranks 5th in Global Executions

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    There are many circumstances under which someone might come to America without a working knowledge of English -- to escape tyranny or economic destitution in the hopes of making a better life for themselves being only two of the chief examples. Americans, in general, are fairly forgiving of visitors and immigrants who have difficulty with the language -- if they make the effort, we do our best to help them. That's one of the things I like about this country.
    In those situations (which should be very few), the FIRST thing they need to be doing is learning ENGLISH. Apparently a large number of you folks don't have enough to do, if you've got all sorts of time and energy to help these people.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Regardless, we aren't talking about respect or manners or taste or anything like that. We're talking about legal matters. English is not the official language, we are not legally required to be fluent in English, and simple common sense dictates that when you are issuing a warning required by the Supreme Court you should make a good faith effort to ensure that your intended audience is able to understand you.
    English should not only be the OFFICIAL language of the USA, it should be the ONLY language allowed here in this nation, both in a spoken and a written form. You also need to remember that I am not a proponent of requiring the Miranda Warning to begin with. Especially since I am not in favor of several of those provisions to begin with. Nor am I in favor of applying ANY Constitutional protections to anyone who is not a US Citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    "Don't get yourself in trouble" is not only inadequate advice, it completely ignores the realities of our criminal justice system.
    I tend to disagree; but then again we have a fundamental diasgreement on how society and individual's lives should be oriented so that's really not worth getting into.

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