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Trayvon Martin school suspension linked to pot(edited)

Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Good luck with that... media couldn't care less and Obama just can't relate to old white men you see.

I was going to answer him, but I think I'll answer here. This is not comparable. I don't expect every death to be commented on. Just as when missing little white girls get more press than missing little black girls (as some have pointed out in the past). Events largely lead to news stories, and how they happen and progress. Making such comparisons as he did is just silly.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Martin wasn't even partially wholesome if the reports are accurate. Burglary tools? Pot pipe? Allegedly swinging at a bus driver? Suspended three times since Feb? Sounds like it shows at least the beginnings of a pattern... It's not irrelevant - it goes to the character of the alleged victim and is in no way attacking in any sense. These are facts - you may see them as an attack because you have sympathy, but that sympathy is irrelevant.

Yup, attacking the victim with irrelevancies. Keep up the quality work. Here, let me give you a hint: the victim's character is not an issue, his actions that night are. He could be a gang banging, date raping, purse snatching asshole, and if he did nothing wrong on the night he was killed, then the only thing that matters is that he did nothing wrong the night he was killed.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Of course they do. It would be impossible for human beings not to be effected by stereotypes -- in spite of what political correctness keeps insisting. Learning who our enemies are and being extra vigilant against them is what's kept us alive for tens of thousands of years.

True. But it also leads us to mistakenly view something as a threat that isn't. I know nothing about political correctness, which today seems to be more an excuse not to behave well, but I do know that we can and do misjudge situations. And doing so when armed can have tragic results. At least when that vigilance isn't matched with temperance and good sense.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

And he didn't find him, which is his story, and its backed up by the 911 call.
No, it isn't backed up by 911 calls.
Then the remainder of his story, is corroborated by witnesses, according to authorities.
You mean the same authority that didn't bother with taking the weapon, pictures, the victims cell phone, pictures of the shooter or victim, running toxicology on the shooter, etc? Those authorities?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Once again for the 100x time - Order, told, suggest, instruct, etc, etc

Some dude or gal behind a phone...aka dispatcher. Their words have no basis in law

Which changes nothing I'm arguing. You can be responsible and not held so legally.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

No, it isn't backed up by 911 calls.

Really? You hear a Martin on the 911 call? You hear Zimmerman talking to him? Wow. You must have better ears than everyone else.

Tettsuo said:
You mean the same authority that didn't bother with taking the weapon, pictures, the victims cell phone, pictures of the shooter or victim, running toxicology on the shooter, etc? Those authorities?

And you have access to the grand jury evidence? You must work for the police department down there.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Martin wasn't even partially wholesome if the reports are accurate. Burglary tools? Pot pipe? Allegedly swinging at a bus driver? Suspended three times since Feb? Sounds like it shows at least the beginnings of a pattern... It's not irrelevant - it goes to the character of the alleged victim and is in no way attacking in any sense. These are facts - you may see them as an attack because you have sympathy, but that sympathy is irrelevant.

So what?
I was an incorrigible youth as well...pot pipes, vandalism, fights.. sure been there done that. I do not think any of that would be deserved to have been gunned down for walking down the street... and although I may have been an incorrigible youth it is irrelevant since I moved beyond that and in time realized my potential. Unfortunately in this case, whatever potential for good or bad would have developed will never be known however.

Sure, we do not know the full story of what all went down that night, but I highly doubt Martin was off to go burglarizing houses equipped with a bag of skittles and a drink. Regardless of if he has a few blemishes in his behavior (not atypical for a kid that age), this whole affair is tragic. His actions in the past have no bearing on the night in question though, let the facts come out as they come out, and let justice do what it does. We do not need armchair juries convicting or demonizing either party in this based on a few snippets here and there.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Of course they do. It would be impossible for human beings not to be effected by stereotypes -- in spite of what political correctness keeps insisting. Learning who our enemies are and being extra vigilant against them is what's kept us alive for tens of thousands of years.

Stereotypes aren't genetic, they are learned. We are taught to be afraid or suspicious. Political correctness is a process of unlearning those lies, not for those that are already indocrinated, but those that are listening to every word we say. It's our words and behaviors that shape them and shape the future.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Yup, attacking the victim with irrelevancies.
Past actions add to a view of character in any court in the land. Sorry it's inconvenient for you...

Keep up the quality work.
As long as it's factual, I will continue thanks.

Here, let me give you a hint: the victim's character is not an issue,
It lends credibility to Zimmermans actions and statements to the police.

his actions that night are.
His actions that night ALSO are relevant yes.

He could be a gang banging, date raping, purse snatching asshole, and if he did nothing wrong on the night he was killed, then the only thing that matters is that he did nothing wrong the night he was killed.
You're factually wrong as it applies to our legal system. Character witness testimony relays the reliability and reputation as it comes from a person first hand. If the reports are accurate, Martin's character lends credibility to Zimmermans statements.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...


It lends credibility to Zimmermans statements to the police. That's so what.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Really? You hear a Martin on the 911 call? You hear Zimmerman talking to him? Wow. You must have better ears than everyone else.
I think we all heard Zimmerman talking to the 911 dispatcher. Martin wasn't on a 911 call.
And you have access to the grand jury evidence? You must work for the police department down there.
Most of the above was made public. So no, I don't have to work for the police department.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

He could be a gang banging, date raping, purse snatching asshole, and if he did nothing wrong on the night he was killed, then the only thing that matters is that he did nothing wrong the night he was killed.

Are you sure, Martin did nothing wrong that night given at the time of the shooting, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, straddling him, delivering blows. This was supported by Zim having grass stains on his back, and blood on the back of his head?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

It lends credibility to Zimmermans statements to the police. That's so what.

Which may be part of the reason why he has not been arrested.

let the police and the DA's and the legal system sort it out, and lets not demonize or judge either party based on our media filtered hearsay, we do not know the whole story.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Past actions add to a view of character in any court in the land. Sorry it's inconvenient for you...
Martin has no violence in his past, unlike Zimmerman. Unless of course you have some evidence that Martin attacked people at random, then it's applicable.

You're factually wrong as it applies to our legal system. Character witness testimony relays the reliability and reputation as it comes from a person first hand. If the reports are accurate, Martin's character lends credibility to Zimmermans statements.
No it does not. Martin's character has no history of violence. The reverse is true for Zimmerman.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Which may be part of the reason why he has not been arrested.
It would be a stretch to think so... I see Zimmerman's statement that Martin was acting suspiciously as a minor thing, given Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

let the police and the DA's and the legal system sort it out, and lets not demonize or judge either party based on our media filtered hearsay, we do not know the whole story.
Agreed.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Are you sure, Martin did nothing wrong that night given at the time of the shooting, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, straddling him, delivering blows. This was supported by Zim having grass stains on his back, and blood on the back of his head?

I still haven't seen that witness testimony. Would you be able to link it please? Was it corroborated with any other witness testimony?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Once again for the 100x time - Order, told, suggest, instruct, etc, etc

Some dude or gal behind a phone...aka dispatcher. Their words have no basis in law

After listening to the 911 call and some statements that his Zimm's friend made, I suspect that it will come out that Zimm did stop following Martin after the 911 dispatcher suggested that he should.

I suspect that the idea that Zimm kept chasing after will come out to be another part of the story that the media had wrong.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Martin has no violence in his past, unlike Zimmerman.
Oh? What violent facts about Zimmerman are there - please link to them.

Unless of course you have some evidence that Martin attacked people at random, then it's applicable.
See the OP links :roll:

No it does not. Martin's character has no history of violence. The reverse is true for Zimmerman.
I'm sorry you're ignorant of the law. There's nothing I can do other than point it out over and over to you. Please educate yourself on Character Witnesses in the U.S. legal system.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Schools don't conduct criminal trials nor have to met the standards of one to make decisions, nor do I. Caught vandalizing a locker (spray paint) and then searching his locker producing a screwdriver and girl's jewelry unwilling to say where he got it and who gave it to him can - as a "probably" lead ME to believe him a burglar/thief. If you point is that doesn't met a criminal trial standard? No, it doesn't.
Civil cases are ALL decided without reaching the standards of a criminal trial to. Obviously none of us are talking about putting Martin on trial at any trial. Rather, we are - based on facts - drawing conclusions on "issues," and one issue is was the days and days of presenting Martin as the perfect behavior teen. That opens the quesiton of was he?
It would seem obviously not. I suppose you can claim the school also entered into a conspiracy against him while a live, like claimed police did of his death. I agree with the school but also draw my own "likelihood" conclusions of my own.

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed that Trayvon Martin was perfect. I draw my conclusions based on these ideas

a) Neighborhood Watch does not mean you are the law, or that you have the authority to do an armed patrol confronting people you think are suspicious. It does not make you a police officer.

b) When you create the situation yourself, it's not self-defense. When Zimmerman got out of his car and pursued Martin, he created the dangerous situation.

These ideas, along with the facts in the case, means that claiming self-defense and justifiable homicide is shaky at best. It's unlikely that Zimmerman knew who he was following, and what kind of record this person had. So what you've got is a guy who goes out armed and confronts someone that he thinks is a criminal based on the fact that he was wearing a hoodie.

Is that the society we want to live in? Do you want to live in a society where someone can walk up to you with a gun because you "look suspicious?"
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

You cannot assume events went differently and utopia follows. Maybe if Zimmerman hadn't followed Martin would have attacked someone else, burglarized a house, sold drugs to an 8 year old... There is no knowing the unknown.

IF Martin was actually just going home had done so, this also wouldn't have happened. If he hadn't started pounding Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, this wouldn't have happened. If... if... if... That does NOT make shared responsibility.

That argument is completely and utterly ridiculous. You are attempting to make up fantasies based on little to no evidence whatsoever, just saying that something COULD happen. A lot of things COULD happen, but that doesn't mean that they have or will happen.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

This entire story is completely irrelevant to the events that unfolded. This is a right wing smear campaign aimed at a victim of a murder.

You mean challenge the asserted fact by MSNBC that Martin was the ideal behavior teenager? But NOW MSNBC is a collection of rightwingers trying to smear Martin?
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

That argument is completely and utterly ridiculous. You are attempting to make up fantasies based on little to no evidence whatsoever, just saying that something COULD happen. A lot of things COULD happen, but that doesn't mean that they have or will happen.

Its not absurd at all. I was responding to someone claiming if Zimmerman had done nothing, it a truism that nothing would have happened. The unknown is known. He can fatasize of utopia alternatives so then I can fantasize of dystopian alternatives.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

I still haven't seen that witness testimony. Would you be able to link it please? Was it corroborated with any other witness testimony?

Frankly, The Sanford PD has a PIO aka Public Information Officer. I have no idea why she doesn't come out speak about, the important elements found
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Stereotypes aren't genetic, they are learned. We are taught to be afraid or suspicious. Political correctness is a process of unlearning those lies, not for those that are already indocrinated, but those that are listening to every word we say. It's our words and behaviors that shape them and shape the future.

Agreed. But what are they learned from? I disagree with you that political correctness is a process of unlearning those lies. These stereotypical responses are not lies. They are founded in hard, cold fact. Those who are "indoctrinated," as you say, are bigots. There's a difference between being vigilant against stereotypes and bigotry. Big.

If I see three black young men advancing rapidly toward me at night...looking left and right and back as they approach...one with a teardrop tat on his face, one with his hand in his pocket and something sticking out from there...I'm going to be scared ****less. Mine would be a stereotypical response. And it just might keep me alive.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed that Trayvon Martin was perfect. I draw my conclusions based on these ideas

a) Neighborhood Watch does not mean you are the law, or that you have the authority to do an armed patrol confronting people you think are suspicious. It does not make you a police officer.

b) When you create the situation yourself, it's not self-defense. When Zimmerman got out of his car and pursued Martin, he created the dangerous situation.

These ideas, along with the facts in the case, means that claiming self-defense and justifiable homicide is shaky at best. It's unlikely that Zimmerman knew who he was following, and what kind of record this person had. So what you've got is a guy who goes out armed and confronts someone that he thinks is a criminal based on the fact that he was wearing a hoodie.

Is that the society we want to live in? Do you want to live in a society where someone can walk up to you with a gun because you "look suspicious?"

The girlfriend's recount of her call with Martin is that it was Martin who confronted Zimmerman. There is zero evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.

Zimmerman said Martin looked suspicious because he was acting oddly in his view and acting like he was on drugs. The claim that Zimmerman believed Martin suspicious for wearing a hoodie is just something media personalities made up.

I would like a society where people looked out for each other and each other's property. Zimmerman kept his gun concealed (also known by the girlfriend's statement about what Martin said on the phone). I have NO problem with adults (qualified, skilled) carrying firearms. None. I have no problem with ANYONE calling police on someone they see as acting suspicious and if that person runs after learning the police are being called watching where that person went with police on the way is correct and desired conduct in my opinion.






Personally, I think all neighborhood crime watch should be armed and trained accordingly.
 
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