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Trayvon Martin school suspension linked to pot(edited)

Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Sure they're related. Bugulary tools, past history of drugs use both coincide with Zimmermans statements that Martin looked suspicious and may be on drugs. Lends to credibility...

and Zimmerman beating a cop, beating an ex-girlfriend, and having a restraining order placed upon him, lends to HIS credibility.

along with calling Martin an "asshole" and a "****ing punk" on the 911 call.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

P.S. I don't ever remember seeing a thread as active as this: 14 Members and 9 Guests. Maybe I just never noticed before....?

When you think about it, it takes everything the extremists on both sides are afraid of and puts it in one nice box.
 
THANK YOU for that.

Being politically correct in real life does get people hurt, particularly women. Not wanting to be offensive or rude, women will hesitate to run, decide NOT proceed to her car in a parking lot but instead towards other people, NOT get ahead of the curve if a date is becoming increasingly pushy and forceful - and a whole list of other ways. Being politically or socially correct, or not wanting to seem afraid, can get a person robbed, assaulted, raped or killed.

But there is ANOTHER stereotype I urge against. That a man has less rights to self defense than a woman does.

I think if Zimmerman was a woman, attitudes would be different. TOO MANY people think if there is a MAN in the house, then no reason to lock the door or that there is no danger as long as a MAN is along. That men just fist fight and the good guy always wins like in the movies if there is an attack - and that assuming the attacker doesn't pull a knife or - as in the case of Martin (in my opinion) - when the assailant or other guy has "won" he doesn't just proceed to stomp on your neck, stick his fingers into the man's eyes permanently blinding him, stomping on his throat, choking him to death, kicking his ribs into his lungs etc, etc.

MEN also have a right to defend against attack or a realistic sense that one is imminent and not have to rely on "I'm a man" thus being disarmed. My childhood and then adult past was very, very tough and it made me tough and a psychologists would say a phobic need to remain so, to never have reason to fear a man. If someone saw me charging down on the angrily and that my motive, they have a gun and shoot fast - because their are few men I couldn't do any amount of damage or injury I wanted to.

What I would to see is people allowed guns in public, but ONLY IF they have gone through REAL training and testing. On law. On weapons. And correct responses. And a bit of psychological inquiry too. WITH THAT I'd like to see quasi citizen cops. Police usually only arrive after assaults, robberies, rapes and murder.

But back to your point, if you're white and see some black guy (doesn't have to be 3) coming towards you and you sense danger for whatever reason, it is foolish to convince yourself that you can't reacte negatively and defensively for fear of seeming like a racist. Or via versa or whatever. Most people who are assaulted (not all) had a sense of danger before it happened - and disregarded it or under reacted to it. Don't. It only takes one time to ruin the rest of your life. There are 6 BILLION people on this planet. It absolutely doesn't matter what someone you don't even know thinks about you. Look out for yourself. Look out for others.
Men, just because you're a guy doesn't mean you aren't in danger. And women, just because you're with your man doesn't mean you have a trained body guard with you.

The quicker you put up your guard and reacte to a sense of danger, the higher likelihood that NO ONE is hurt. Then you never know what didn't happen.

On the other hand, if you MUST pick, pick trying to prove you're innocent rather than you or your family trying to seek justice against whoever made you his victim. No guilty verdict, even no death penalty, not once, ever undid one iota of what the assailant did to the victim.

Sorry for the soap box speechifying.

This is all excellent information. Here's an example: How many women, waiting for the elevator, would not enter the elevator if one of those stereotypical types were in it alone? That would be me. And it should be every woman on planet earth. Most women would be to "embarrassed" to simply say, "I'll wait for the next one," or "Oops, never mind." I know it's a silly subjective example, but it's one that could save anyone's life.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Give me a break and get over yourself. None of your bull**** changes the fact that this kid would still be alive if Zimmerman had listened to the 911 operator and left the kid alone. Zimmerman should face the consequences of his actions.
I agree...he should. He was negligent. Acknowledging that fact might lead to some form of adequate justice. Spewing the "in cold blood" bull**** is likely to get someone killed.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Will you PULLLEEZE stop saying Zimmerman was seen standing on Trayvon. That is not true. You think it is? Where's the link?

“I came out of my apartment and saw him still straddling Trayvon’s body,” Mary Cutcher told Dateline NBC of Zimmerman. “He had his hands pressed on his back… he never turned him over or tried to help him with CPR or anything.

Note the position of Traybon's dead unarmed body?

Maggie if a man is staddling you while you are face down and then the man stands up and puts his foot on you (weighing 230+) ... do you think he is standing on you? I do ... especially if he is almost twice my size and armed and has been following me.

I am surprised there is no issue that George made no attempt to call an ambulance. If i freaked out shot an unarmed kid who was on my property (and that was not the case in this shooting) I would call an ambulance once he was down.

She later reported when George stood up he kept his foot on Traybon and it is docutmented George NEVER called for medical aid.

It is fact he began following Traybon and it is fact by George's own words that Traybon continued to run away.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Note the position of Traybon's dead unarmed body?

Maggie if a man is staddling you while you are face down and then the man stands up and puts his foot on you (weighing 230+) ... do you think he is standing on you? I do ... especially if he is almost twice my size and armed and has been following me.

I am surprised there is no issue that George made no attempt to call an ambulance. If i freaked out shot an unarmed kid who was on my property (and that was not the case in this shooting) I would call an ambulance once he was down.

She later reported when George stood up he kept his foot on Traybon and it is docutmented George NEVER called for medical aid.

It is fact he began following Traybon and it is fact by George's own words that Traybon continued to run away.

Dion, where is the link that says Zimmerman stood on Martin?

As to Zimmerman never calling for medical aid, for God's sake, the police were there in just a couple minutes. He was a complete wreck. Ever have your adrenalin pumping so hard you think your heart's going to leap out of your chest? Unless you've been there, you just can't imagine the physical assault that adrenalin rush/ebb puts on your body. He wasn't even thinking -- if what he says is true.

I really think you need more perspective. This isn't cut-and-dried either way. There's too many unknowns.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Dion, where is the link that says Zimmerman stood on Martin?

As to Zimmerman never calling for medical aid, for God's sake, the police were there in just a couple minutes. He was a complete wreck. Ever have your adrenalin pumping so hard you think your heart's going to leap out of your chest? Unless you've been there, you just can't imagine the physical assault that adrenalin rush/ebb puts on your body. He wasn't even thinking -- if what he says is true.

I really think you need more perspective. This isn't cut-and-dried either way. There's too many unknowns.

This is known. Almost instantly after the shot, two women who had called 911 went out and over. They saw Zimmerman over Martin, one of them saying maybe he was trying to help Martin somehow. Then Martin told them "call 911." First and only words as Zimmerman continued to try to help Martin. I saw the video of them on TV, don't really want to take time to continually search for links to You Tube.

Telling people "call 911" while possibly trying to save his own attacker's life (or just trying to save Martin's life deleting my view of it), was exactly the correct thing for Zimmerman to do.

Not as much is still unknown as some people still think.
 
This is all excellent information. Here's an example: How many women, waiting for the elevator, would not enter the elevator if one of those stereotypical types were in it alone? That would be me. And it should be every woman on planet earth. Most women would be to "embarrassed" to simply say, "I'll wait for the next one," or "Oops, never mind." I know it's a silly subjective example, but it's one that could save anyone's life.

Smart women learn early on to gauge people and behaviors and situations that may not be safe and avoid them.

In fact, while the police might and I say might have had some unchecked racism to not put this under immediate investigation ... I really do suspect that George was not so much a racist but an idiot making poor decisions because he wanted to feel powerful and a hero and instead he killed an innocent kid.

Unfortunately ... the police might not have collected relevant evidence of George's drug/ETOH level after he shot the kid or documentation of his injuries.

Now ...because of public outrage ... George will have to produce some evidence to back up his story. George's evidence so far looks pretty bad as he admits putting Traybon in a position to stand his ground even though we have no evidence Traybon did such.
 
Now ...because of public outrage ... George will have to produce some evidence to back up his story. George's evidence so far looks pretty bad as he admits putting Traybon in a position to stand his ground even though we have no evidence Traybon did such.

No, George will not have to produce any evidence other than his own testimony. It isn't up to George to prove anything at all. That burden is, and always has been, on the state.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Trayvon Martin: Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman broke Neighborhood Watch gun rules - chicagotribune.com

Is there an official neighborhood watch program in that neighborhood? Is Zimmerman a member. What the NW guy didn't say is that you also shouldn't be patrolling alone. So from what I've read, Zimmerman isn't in a NW program, so what NW says is irrelevant. It's not even legally binding.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Noone said Zimmerman was smart, however, those rules are not LEGALLY binding.

Nor have I said they are. I merely said he shares in responsibility, whether he acted legally or not.
 
... George will have to produce some evidence to back up his story.

Zim has to produce squat....zip, zilch, zero. The burden is on the DA
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Dion, where is the link that says Zimmerman stood on Martin?

As to Zimmerman never calling for medical aid, for God's sake, the police were there in just a couple minutes. He was a complete wreck. Ever have your adrenalin pumping so hard you think your heart's going to leap out of your chest? Unless you've been there, you just can't imagine the physical assault that adrenalin rush/ebb puts on your body. He wasn't even thinking -- if what he says is true.

I really think you need more perspective. This isn't cut-and-dried either way. There's too many unknowns.

I provided the Dateline Interview of a witness who described George straddling the kid's body and then stood up with his foot on him. In fact, that interview was provided to you yesterday and additional excerpt today.

In fact, George asked them to call police not an ambulance. They said George was taking no action to assist or aid the kid who lie face down.

I never said it was cut and dried,. In fact ...that is why there was such outrage ...despite so much evidence the police had decidied it was cut and dried.

Maggie ... police are not the same as an medical EMT.

Yes ... I have had epinephrine pumping ... many times. If I shoot you for scaring me as you walk away from me in my neighborhood ... even with epinephrine rush ... I would call the EMT to transport you to a medical facility for the GSW.
 
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Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Sure they're related. Bugulary tools, past history of drugs use both coincide with Zimmermans statements that Martin looked suspicious and may be on drugs. Lends to credibility.
Burgulary tools? Come on... that's a stretch and you know it (or you don't). Even so, on the night of the incident, none of that was present... so it's not like the kid was preparing to burgularize anyone's home and Zimmerman stopped him. It also does not lend credibility to Martin being a violent aggressor. It's unrelated and does nothing for Zimmerman.
It's being suspended 3 times since Feb, having bugulary tools, pot pipe with bag & residue as well as allegedly, taking a swing at a bus driver. As I've already stated, that lends credibility to Zimmermans statements to the police.
Smoking pot has nothing to do with violent behavior. The only possible related thing is the ALLEGED attempt to attack a bus driver. Zimmerman on the other hand has two accounts of him being violent on record.
If Martin has no past history of drugs, suspensions or alleged violence; was an A student honor roll and never got in trouble in his life, that would tend to cast doubt on Zimmerman's statements.
Wow, it's interesting that you're willing to take Zimmerman, a proven violent person, over a B student that got suspending for doing nothing violent. Amazing.

Certainly it wouldn't... unless he was caught swigging beer at school as was suspended for it 3 times... you see?
No, I don't. Sneaking beer and viciously attacking a man from behind is not related. It's just character assassination. When you get some information about Martin attacking people out of the blue, then you'd have a point.
 
Smart women learn early on to gauge people and behaviors and situations that may not be safe and avoid them.

In fact, while the police might and I say might have had some unchecked racism to not put this under immediate investigation ... I really do suspect that George was not so much a racist but an idiot making poor decisions because he wanted to feel powerful and a hero and instead he killed an innocent kid.

Unfortunately ... the police might not have collected relevant evidence of George's drug/ETOH level after he shot the kid or documentation of his injuries.

Now ...because of public outrage ... George will have to produce some evidence to back up his story. George's evidence so far looks pretty bad as he admits putting Traybon in a position to stand his ground even though we have no evidence Traybon did such.

No, George will not have to produce any evidence other than his own testimony. It isn't up to George to prove anything at all. That burden is, and always has been, on the state.

Incorrect ... George (through his legal defense) will now have to provide some evidence.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Anyone recognize this black teen? He killed an old white guy in Spokane Washington. Treven Lewis is his very similar name, where's the outrage?

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Is this like one of those "Darth Vader is riding a unicycle. Your argument is invalid," thingies?

Cause it seems like you're trying to compare apples and bananas and asking why we don't peel each fruit the same way. imho
 
Incorrect ... George (through his legal defense) will now have to provide some evidence.

No, he does not have to. 5th amendment.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

Is there an official neighborhood watch program in that neighborhood? Is Zimmerman a member. What the NW guy didn't say is that you also shouldn't be patrolling alone. So from what I've read, Zimmerman isn't in a NW program, so what NW says is irrelevant. It's not even legally binding.

not sure why everyone keeps saying legally binding and not reading where I say that isn't part of my argument, but OK. Still, whether official or not, the rules speak to judgment, which is what I'm questioning.

But for the record; . . . in establishing a local Neighborhood Watch group last year, appointed him the captain.

Who is George Zimmerman, and why did he shoot Trayvon Martin? - CSMonitor.com
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

and Zimmerman beating a cop, beating an ex-girlfriend, and having a restraining order placed upon him, lends to HIS credibility.

along with calling Martin an "asshole" and a "****ing punk" on the 911 call.
i saw your post and sought something to confirm your presentations
would you please point to a cite which tells us that zimmerman was convicted of assaulting a police officer, and twice convicted for assault on his girl friend
for extra credit, show us where a restraining order was actually issued rather than requested (which zimmerman also requested against his girl friend)
i know you are aware that an arrest is not meaningful for legal purposes but a conviction would meet the burden of proof to make such statements; so please help me find something on the internet which will prove zimmerman was convicted of those actions you have alleged
 
Incorrect ... George (through his legal defense) will now have to provide some evidence.

He doesn't have to even put on a defense. I don't think you have a clear understanding of "innocent until proven guilty." He walks into court an innocent man. The state must prove his guilt. If, after the state puts on its case, the defense has confidence that the state hasn't proven it's case? The defense can ask for dismissal. Without Zimmerman saying a word.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

The girlfriend's recount of her call with Martin is that it was Martin who confronted Zimmerman.
This is only true if you take the meaning of confront to mean "speak first."
The girl's account has M surprised to be found by Z, iirc.
So if we take "confront" to mean speak first, instead of something involving "approach" or "accost" then your assertion is technically correct.

... if that person runs after learning the police are being called ...
I asked about this before. It's the pile of un-answered questions I have had for you. But I will ask again.
When did M find out that Z was on the phone with the PD?
Where did you find that information?

Personally, I think all neighborhood crime watch should be armed and trained accordingly.
The armed trained professional who watch out for us are called police.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

not sure why everyone keeps saying legally binding and not reading where I say that isn't part of my argument, but OK. Still, whether official or not, the rules speak to judgment, which is what I'm questioning.

But for the record; . . . in establishing a local Neighborhood Watch group last year, appointed him the captain.

Who is George Zimmerman, and why did he shoot Trayvon Martin? - CSMonitor.com

He was out patrolling his neighborhood, the purpose of which we know. So if someone is acting suspiciously, it warrants further observation....which he did. He even called authorities to report the suspicion, which a wild-eyed self-appointed sheriff probably wouldn't have...."I'm going in alone".
 
Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

If you approach someone, they also have the right to defend themselves.
It takes more than an approach. There needs to be a reasonable cause to fear imminent harm.
 
This is all excellent information. Here's an example: How many women, waiting for the elevator, would not enter the elevator if one of those stereotypical types were in it alone? That would be me. And it should be every woman on planet earth. Most women would be to "embarrassed" to simply say, "I'll wait for the next one," or "Oops, never mind." I know it's a silly subjective example, but it's one that could save anyone's life.

That is a perfect example. And a very real one.

The best example for single women is in regards to date-rape. Put up with NO aggressiveness or pushiness (other than what might be obvious toyful playing by BOTH of you). I know a particularly gorgeous woman (no, she's not mine) has very strong feelings and reactions. But she also dated a lot men quickly for specific purpose and for many years waiting and searching for the right man to marry. She kept herself is great physical shape, but for beauty. Still that also was strength. She not only kept long nails, she literally filed them to be sharp.

She took no chances nor wasted time and effort either. She explained if at a restaurant if she decided a man was rude or no longer of interest to her, she's excuse herself to go to the ladies room - and then straight out the back door thru the kitchen. If in a car, at a stop light she'd just get out and dash off, calling a taxi from somewhere else. If in his place, she had no hesitation to find excuse to get to one of the doors and leave without a word. Rude? Sure. Wise? Actually it is.

If a guy became pushy or physical in a real way at his place, she explained she would divert, act seduced, find an excuse to get to a door, and then kiss the guy - kneeing him in the groin hard enough to lift him off the floor as she ran out the door. Excessive? Maybe. But it would work!

One time (only) a man appeared clearly trying to assault (rape) her in increasing forcefulness. She diverted him enough to ram a handful of her sharp nails into his eyes - and away she ran.

BUT she adopted these absolute safe-dating of strangers only AFTER she had been sexually assaulted. She took a NEVER AGAIN attitude. She recognized that by rapidly dating strangers in her deliberate search for the perfect Mr. Right and recognizing her great beauty, poise, seductiveness and all the desireability she had, - and just any woman going out with men just met - she had to set some absolute and hard self-safety rules.

Ultimately, she found her man.

On date rape, she said women don't "get ahead of the curve." Rather, the woman just resists in relation to the level of pressure at the time being put on her. If the man tries to lean her down in too forceful away, a woman will just push back and maybe say don't. Then he pushes harder. She shouts stop. Now it's a struggle, him on top and she's going to lose. That the woman just allows it to build from one step to the next, the man's negative emotions escalating along the way. Instead, in her opinion, if a man becomes forceful the woman should consider it a sexual assault and use ALL diversion, violent, any means to escape.

To women on a date it usually would just mean getting away, out of the car, fleeing any way possible without giving a damn whether it is over-reacting or seemingly rude. If a woman says "no" and he keeps pressuring, she should consider and act as though it is a sexual assault, rather than just saying no more forcefully as it escalates. Her view is one commonly shared by prostitutes, barflies and other women who are with many men they don't really know. They will go into diversion, escape or violent resistance mode - whichever seems would work best - VERY quickly to get ahead of the evolution of she senses he is dangerous.

Back to the topic, IF Zimmerman had - IF the truth (we won't know) was that Martin came angrily back at him after he was off the phone with 911 (this a second time Martin would have according to Z's 911 transcropt) had drew his 9mm and shouted "Stay back from me or a I WILL shoot!" I think it would have ended there and no one hurt, rather than rapidly evolving as it did. Sure, people would rage that he was a madman threatening a black teen with a gun claiming him a dangerous racist, but likely no one would have gotten hurt. (I know many disagree with my view of this.)
 
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