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Thread: Trayvon Martin school suspension linked to pot(edited)

  1. #211
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm beginning to really understand why obtaining justice can be a very difficult thing. And I say that without prejudice to either of these guys. I have to smile at all the perjoratives I read in these threads...I've used some of them myself.

    Zimmerman was stalking Martin.
    Zimmerman confronted Martin.
    Zimmerman was told to back off.
    Zimmerman was a cop-wanna-be.

    This whole thing has been a lesson in jumping to conclusions for me. Because none of us, not one, knows everything that happened that night. And, as usual, the devil's in the details.
    Language helps paint the issue, so it as used that way too often. I tried using told, but even that seemed to invoke something I did not mean. Back off seemed a less formal way of paraphrasing what was said, but more factually it was more like, you don't need to do that, or shouldn't do that. In any case, the point and rules was that he call and step aside. And that would have been the prudent thing to do.

    I'm not willing to paint either too evil at this point, but instead see a case where someone who wanted to do good let his zeal get the best of him and likely went too far. If new information changes that view, I will change mine as well. But we do both a disservice, and especially their families, by trying to hard to paint them as evil.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #212
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    ... it appears that Zim had stopped following him after being told to by the dispatcher that it wasn't necessary.
    It doesn't appear Zim had stopped following him after being told to by the dispatcher that it wasn't necessary.

    Z gets out of his truck @ about 2:10
    @ about 2:25 Z says okay in reply to being told that the PD don't need Z to follow M
    Z remains on the phone for another 1:35

    imho, 95 seconds is ample time for Z to cover the distance he just covered in 15 seconds
    to wit
    If Z did a full on sprint w/o any acceleration for 15 seconds @ 15mph, he could cover the same distance back to his truck @ 2.3 mph--a nice, leisurely walking speed.
    Now, if Z did have to accelerate, if Z wasn't capable of reaching 15 mph, then he wouldn't've covered as much distance and could have made it back to his truck in even less time at casual walking pace.

    Since Z to be off the road away from his truck after the phone call ended and when the altercation took place, it does NOT appear that Z stopped following M after the PD advised him that his pursuit was unnecessary.
    I may be wrong.

  3. #213
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It was Cutcher, iirc who said that she saw Z straddling M after the shooting.

    Focus in Trayvon Martin case shifts to Washington - CNN.com

    Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, told CNN Monday that they ran outside. "Within seconds," they were about 10 feet away from Martin's body, Lamilla said."(Zimmerman) was standing over the body, basically straddling the body with his hand on Trayvon's back," said Cutcher, adding that they called three times to him before he finally asked them to call police. "It didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way."
    Mary Cutcher appears to be a publicity hound. Her sworn statement to the police differs significantly from what she is saying when a camera is stuck in her face.

  4. #214
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm beginning to really understand why obtaining justice can be a very difficult thing. And I say that without prejudice to either of these guys. I have to smile at all the perjoratives I read in these threads...I've used some of them myself.

    Zimmerman was stalking Martin.
    Zimmerman confronted Martin.
    Zimmerman was told to back off.
    Zimmerman was a cop-wanna-be.

    This whole thing has been a lesson in jumping to conclusions for me. Because none of us, not one, knows everything that happened that night. And, as usual, the devil's in the details.

    actually, zimmerman was a wannabe cop, who could not make the cut
    that reality should not serve to undermine the legitimacy of your point
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    A voice expert has already debunked the racially charged slurs. Had Martin not walked through the neighborhood.....blah blah blah. Z didn't stalk anyone; stalking presumes you know the person, and have evil intentions. None of that has been alleged (except by you) or proven.
    Everybody keeps getting hung up on the word "stalked" and whether or not its LEGAL to follow someone around.

    But it IS necessary to "walk a mile in Martins moccasins".

    ALL Martin knew was some great big guy was following him around, first in a car and then on foot.

    Can't say I believe anyone would not be threatened by this. Or at least concerned.

    I certainly would consider it a threat, and my response would be to stop and ask what his deal is.

    Especially if I ran away and then encountered him again.

    And if he "reached for his cell phone" i'd be on him like stink on a monkey. BEFORE he could bring a "weapon" to bear.

    We don't know exactly what happened. Probably never WILL know EXACTLY what happened.

    But this idea that following somwone around is in no way threatening has GOT to go.

    The whole standard for self defense doesn't require one to BE shot or otherwise assaulted, but what a "reasonable" person would do in a given set of circumstances.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  6. #216
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not willing to paint either too evil at this point, but instead see a case where someone who wanted to do good let his zeal get the best of him and likely went too far. If new information changes that view, I will change mine as well. But we do both a disservice, and especially their families, by trying to hard to paint them as evil.
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  7. #217
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He was out patrolling his neighborhood, the purpose of which we know.
    Z's report varies from your report on this matter.
    Z said he was off to run an errand.
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He even called authorities to report the suspicion, which a wild-eyed self-appointed sheriff probably wouldn't have...."I'm going in alone".
    Z failed to "wait for back up" to pursue a suspect who he thought might be armed.
    Might not be "wild-eyed", but not the most professional, deliberate, nor cautious "sheriff"
    I may be wrong.

  8. #218
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Z's report varies from your report on this matter.
    Z said he was off to run an errand.
    Z failed to "wait for back up" to pursue a suspect who he thought might be armed.
    Might not be "wild-eyed", but not the most professional, deliberate, nor cautious "sheriff"
    On Dateline, several neighbors of his were interviewed. One of them said Zimmerman was a cross between Barney Fife and Andy Griffith. They all nodded in agreement. This was no Rambo.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    On Dateline, several neighbors of his were interviewed. One of them said Zimmerman was a cross between Barney Fife and Andy Griffith. They all nodded in agreement. This was no Rambo.
    People said the same thing about Sergeant Bales and the kid who shot up his school a few weeks ago.

  10. #220
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    Re: Trayvon Martin - burglary tools and illegal drugs possession...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    On Dateline, several neighbors of his were interviewed. One of them said Zimmerman was a cross between Barney Fife and Andy Griffith. They all nodded in agreement. This was no Rambo.
    Unless of course we ignore the fact that he has a history of violence and decided that the right course of action when losing a fist fight was to kill his opponent with a gun. Doesn't sound like Rambo at all
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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