Page 95 of 122 FirstFirst ... 45859394959697105 ... LastLast
Results 941 to 950 of 1219

Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #941
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:58 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,695

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No it is not the same thing.

    1: The states can do things that the federal government cannot do. Hence the 10th Amendment.

    2: No one HAS to get a drivers license. The only time that you HAVE to get one is if you drive on public roads. You do not HAVE to get a DL if you do not own a car. You do not HAVE to get a DL if you drive on your own private property. As such no auto insurance is needed.

    I really wish that people would stop using the drivers license/auto insurance BS for a reason to keep the mandate and to allow the federal government in forcing people to buy from private companies. They are NOT the same. In no way shape or form is it the same.
    Well, as far as I know, I'm the only one using auto insurance as an example. The rumblings are, that the court may indeed turn it over to the states. And the two are indeed the same: a government mandate that requires two private parties to form a contract for the good of the whole.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  2. #942
    Global Moderator
    Truth will set you free
    digsbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Metro Washington DC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,983

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    The car insurance argument really isn't equatable. You are only forced to buy car insurance if you drive a car (A license to drive a car is a state issued privilege based on an individuals abilities, this license can be revoked if the law is broken). Every living adult woukd be forced to buy health insurance. Driving is not a right, living is. States can regulate the legality of driving and mandate that people have insurance in order to cover damages to another person's vehicle, the governemt is wanting to force all living adults to purchase a product or be fined.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  3. #943
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The car insurance argument really isn't equatable. You are only forced to buy car insurance if you drive a car (A license to drive a car is a state issued privilege based on an individuals abilities, this license can be revoked if the law is broken). Every living adult woukd be forced to buy health insurance. Driving is not a right, living is. States can regulate the legality of driving and mandate that people have insurance in order to cover damages to another person's vehicle, the governemt is wanting to force all living adults to purchase a product or be fined.
    That's true, but that is also what makes it work. You CAN opt out of driving. You CANNOT opt out of healthcare. Otherwise, the argument is the same, the logic the same. The need even greater with healthcare as no one can not be treated for healthcare.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #944
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Again you keep using this strawman of unreimbursed expenses. However you have no idea what this amounts to. So I guess the question is the size of this problem worthy of the remedy for a part of the economy which totals $2.7 trillion.
    Yes, I do. I linked it in another thread(s):

    Total medical care expenditures among all of the uninsured in 2004 (including both those without coverage for all or part of the year) are almost $125 billion.

    http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/...l-spending.pdf

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #945
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,353

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, I do. I linked it in another thread(s):

    Total medical care expenditures among all of the uninsured in 2004 (including both those without coverage for all or part of the year) are almost $125 billion.

    http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/...l-spending.pdf

    You seem yo conflate the total costs of uninsured with the unreimbursed number which can and probably is materially lower. You also use a number that has to have in it the costs of illegals who go to a hospital which would still be a problem under this bill.

    A single payer system is the only one that works for what the administration wanted to do. The heavy handed mandate was a lousy answer just to get something done.

    There are good points to the bill so it would be unfortunate if the whole thing gets thrown out. Not sure politicians will want to spend the political capital to redo this thing.

  6. #946
    Advisor Blue Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    01-21-15 @ 06:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    426

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is my prediction: The Supreme Court will uphold parts of Obamacare, while striking down other parts of the law, specifically the requirement that everybody obtain health insurance or face penalties. While it is true that states require you to purchase car insurance, this is done by the states, NOT by the Federal government, and I believe that this is where SCOTUS will draw the line.

    Discussion?


    Article is here.
    Agreed. A better argument could be made to strike the mandate down under the Tenth Amendment, than affirm it under the Commerce Clause. IMHO
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

  7. #947
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,353

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Dog View Post
    Agreed. A better argument could be made to strike the mandate down under the Tenth Amendment, than affirm it under the Commerce Clause. IMHO
    Isn't the commerce clause for INTERSTATE commerce or am I wrong about this. Health care outside of Medicare and veterans care in regulated by the states, is this incorrect?

  8. #948
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    You seem yo conflate the total costs of uninsured with the unreimbursed number which can and probably is materially lower. You also use a number that has to have in it the costs of illegals who go to a hospital which would still be a problem under this bill.

    A single payer system is the only one that works for what the administration wanted to do. The heavy handed mandate was a lousy answer just to get something done.

    There are good points to the bill so it would be unfortunate if the whole thing gets thrown out. Not sure politicians will want to spend the political capital to redo this thing.
    I wouldn't say significantly lower, but if you can show that, fine. But reimbursed by who? If it is through tax dollars, I'm not sure that changes much. But what I do know is that a bandaid is charged out at $16, and the reasoning for that charge is paying for the uninsured. Now, we could call the hospitals liars, and demand they prove that link. But as it is a large part of their rationale, and if you eliminate that rationale, some more explaining will have come if the price doesn't lower.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #949
    Advisor Blue Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    01-21-15 @ 06:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    426

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Isn't the commerce clause for INTERSTATE commerce or am I wrong about this. Health care outside of Medicare and veterans care in regulated by the states, is this incorrect?
    No argument from me. I just think one argument is better than the other.
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

  10. #950
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,353

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I wouldn't say significantly lower, but if you can show that, fine. But reimbursed by who? If it is through tax dollars, I'm not sure that changes much. But what I do know is that a bandaid is charged out at $16, and the reasoning for that charge is paying for the uninsured. Now, we could call the hospitals liars, and demand they prove that link. But as it is a large part of their rationale, and if you eliminate that rationale, some more explaining will have come if the price doesn't lower.
    As I stated earlier, I have read that the unremimbursed number is $12 billion or 10% of the total. The difference should be largely that people who go to the ER actually pay out of pocket. Remember if you are making $70K and decide to take the risk of self insuring you are responsible for those costs including the hospital having the ability to go after your assets if you do not pay.

    Regarding the $16 bandaid I have never heard the excuse is that the key reason for this crazy cost is because some don't pay. Do you think that large insurance companies with buying power are actually haveing to pay that $16? Why can't there be some type of grouping of smaller companies and individuals that could get the buying power given to the large health care companies.

Page 95 of 122 FirstFirst ... 45859394959697105 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •