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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #911
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, and saying they're "already engaged in commerce" is just as dumb now as it has been all along.
    I'm willing to go back to the good ol' days when you had to prove financial ability to pay (basically having insurance) before you were admitted to an ER. I lived under those terms for years. I personally think it's a bad idea long-term but if it takes a few dead idiots to make the point I'm OK with it because I know it won't last. The problem is, too many people are now alive that don't remember those days. Maybe all we need is a little reminder. A few rotting corpses should do it.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Of course. But I didn't get smarmy about it. You did.
    How your feelings are impacted is not under discussion.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-04-12 at 08:37 PM.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    We've already been through this; you decided to tuck tail and run rather than respond to it.

    If they can, it's separately-delegated power. This is a commerce clause question, not a tax question.
    Um, I think I made the point and then let you exhaust yourself saying the same nonsensical things over and over. I think it could be argued successfully under the tax power. Apparently at least one former Solicitor General and several of the country's top conlaw scholars think so too. I suspect that it has been argued that way in at least one of the 136 amicus briefs that were filed. Since you're confident this isn't an issue I can only assume that you've read them all?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Um, I think I made the point and then let you exhaust yourself saying the same nonsensical things over and over.
    No, you didn't. You made some huge deal out the Ryan plan, worked yourself into a hissy fit because I kept saying it was irrelevant, and when I finally said "fine" and took it on substantively, saying essentially what I just said, you whined something about being done trying to "talk sense" to me and never bothered to respond to what I said.


    I think it could be argued successfully under the tax power.
    Yeah, well, too late for that. Said that before, too.

    And it would be a complete fabrication as well.


    Apparently at least one former Solicitor General and several of the country's top conlaw scholars think so too. I suspect that it has been argued that way in at least one of the 136 amicus briefs that were filed. Since you're confident this isn't an issue I can only assume that you've read them all?
    The Justices did not seem interested in the question.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm willing to go back to the good ol' days when you had to prove financial ability to pay (basically having insurance) before you were admitted to an ER. I lived under those terms for years. I personally think it's a bad idea long-term but if it takes a few dead idiots to make the point I'm OK with it because I know it won't last. The problem is, too many people are now alive that don't remember those days. Maybe all we need is a little reminder. A few rotting corpses should do it.
    Why you think this is a response to what I quoted, I do not know.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, and saying they're "already engaged in commerce" is just as dumb now as it has been all along.
    I'm sorry, but as the uninsured show up, get treatment, and run up a bill, I see no logical way to say they are not engaged.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Another member posted the opinion that the court should not do this, and you accused him of spewing political propaganda. So given your response I had to assume you were of the opposite opinion.



    If the FedGov cannot constitutionally compel commerce to be entered into between private individuals/organizations, and cannot constitutionally levy a direct tax on individuals on the condition of engaging in a certain type of commerce, then the thousands of pages of other bull**** in the bill are irrelevant. You're basically saying "read harder and closer" in order to try to weave together some reaching rationalization for something ridiculously unconstitutional.

    I defy you to show where I accused another poster of “spewing political propaganda in this subject thread. There was nothing political in my post, and secondly I’m not of an “opposite opinion”, I’m of an informed objective opinion: Scalia is a well known right-wing advocate and everybody in this country is very well aware of that.

    As for the rest of your opinion; I cite the California statute that requires drivers to buy liability insurance. So, I'm not saying read harder and closer to weave at all; again, that's just your opinion. I'm saying read harder and clearer for a working knowkedge of teh bill in it's entirety so that intelligegnt and informed Supreme Court decisions can follow.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The entire law was not in question. Can you, along with him, understand that the crux of the Constitutional question is whether or not the government can force one private party to enter into a binding contract with another private party? If it can then government is unlimited in its reach, scope, and powers. We will live under a totalitarian regime with the power to rule us with an iron fist. If the government cannot then the whole law can be tossed on the ash heap of history.

    If there were any justice every legislator who voted for this would be stripped of every possession and booted out of the country.
    Look, I don't think that you can cite one area of the bill and say that that's the only constitutional sticking point can you. You haven't read teh argument against the bill and neither would I be so presumptuous to say such a thing.

    Again, I will cite teh California law requiring drivers to (forcing driversd by government decree: which I think this will all come down to: states rights) buy auto insurance: it's the very same thing.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Why you think this is a response to what I quoted, I do not know.
    Yes, I'm sure you don't.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-04-12 at 11:10 PM.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Again, I will cite teh California law requiring drivers to (forcing driversd by government decree: which I think this will all come down to: states rights) buy auto insurance: it's the very same thing.
    No it is not the same thing.

    1: The states can do things that the federal government cannot do. Hence the 10th Amendment.

    2: No one HAS to get a drivers license. The only time that you HAVE to get one is if you drive on public roads. You do not HAVE to get a DL if you do not own a car. You do not HAVE to get a DL if you drive on your own private property. As such no auto insurance is needed.

    I really wish that people would stop using the drivers license/auto insurance BS for a reason to keep the mandate and to allow the federal government in forcing people to buy from private companies. They are NOT the same. In no way shape or form is it the same.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 04-04-12 at 11:24 PM.
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