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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Boy, am I glad that you don't decide on the constitutionality of anything.

    It is a fiduciary reposibility of any supreme court justice to read and comprehend any matter that applies to [u]anything[/i] that has an effect on The US Constitution. I think your argument is profoundly weak and based on nothing but political propoganda rather than anything factual or reasonable.
    Well. They are deciding the Constitutionality of the part of the law the case was brought to them on. In this case, if it unconstitutional to force one private party to make a contract with another private party then the whole law must go. Congress, fortunately, did not include that little magic clause that says anything not thrown out by the courts is still law.

    Good for us. I do not want the US to end with a whimper.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So you contend that SCOTUS should dissect and reassemble bills with unconstitutional provisions so that they're Constitutional?

    I don't think so. I think they uphold or overturn lower courts' decisions.
    What kind of a misreading of the English language is that? Where did I say that the supremecourt as to disect a bill and put it back together making it constitutional?

    They should disect everything tha comes before them; because of the significance of their decisions so that, in context, the "sticking points" are well understood. This practice has been referred to as making "intelligent decisions".

    I must say that I don't get your argument: the Supreme Court of the United States should do things on the cheap, and just skate decisions on The Constitution . . .

    right
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why do you believe that operating "health care" under free market principals would provide a different result than every other kind of good or service? Where do you find your wisdom on this issue?
    I already answered that here in my post to Born Free....Basic answer though...History and current events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And just how in the world did you get that from my post?

    There hasn't been a time in human history where humans did not create some form of government. Even the caveman did it. So no, there has never been a time when we were without "big daddy government". I recognize this fact. But that doesn't mean that I think that the government, any government, is the "supreme landlord of the people". But if you think that having no government involved in healthcare or education is a good thing then you're just fooling yourself.

    If you look through history to a time when the prevailing government of <insert country here> purposely didn't attempt to educate the masses and purposely didn't help with healthcare and all that you will find is disease and ignorance. Yeah you may say that people can do it but the question is will they? And will they do it in such a way as to allow EVERYONE the chance at a good education and have good healthcare? The answer will be no. People that do not have the money to pay for a good education or good healthcare will go without. History supports that assertion. You say that charity will help those that can't do it on their own? Charity alone will not help everyone. If that were the case then no one in this country would go digging through dumpsters and trash cans just to try and find one bite to eat.

    I may not trust the government, but I sure am not going to throw it out with the bath water either. The government does provide needed services and I believe that education and healthcare is a couple of those services.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why do you believe that operating "health care" under free market principals would provide a different result than every other kind of good or service? Where do you find your wisdom on this issue?
    For people like me and people in emergency situations health care is not a free market. W/O it I would die a slow miserable death as my heart slow gave out.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Well. They are deciding the Constitutionality of the part of the law the case was brought to them on. In this case, if it unconstitutional to force one private party to make a contract with another private party then the whole law must go. Congress, fortunately, did not include that little magic clause that says anything not thrown out by the courts is still law.

    Good for us. I do not want the US to end with a whimper.
    I see your point, however I have countered that with the Californai statute that requires drivers to buy liability insurance if tehy wish to legally operate a vehicle in the state. Like you, I'm not wild about that part of the Healthcare Act, but it will be interesting to see what the proponents use to hold up their argument.

    I should also add here that the Act may well serve everybody by bringing down the cost of care . . .
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    To be honest from reading the oral arguements it appears like none of the Justices read the whole law. They even jokingly refer to the 8th amendment when they thought that one of the lawyers suggested that they do read the whole thing. (sorry, names are not my strong suit and I don't feel like looking it up again, but it was in the transcript of the 3rd day arguements)

    Just to refresh memories and save you all a bit of time the 8th Amendment has the Cruel and Unusual punishment clause.
    Oh, I'm not surprised. Scalia however opened himself up like a fish when he scoffed at "the very idea" that he should have some idea of what he's talking about . . .
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Oh, I'm not surprised. Scalia however opened himself up like a fish when he scoffed at "the very idea" that he should have some idea of what he's talking about . . .
    It's also painfully obvious that Scalia is taking cues from right-wing media and not the law itself. In the argument he made a snide remark about the "cornhusker kickback", which was a proposal to provide extra Medicaid funding for Nebraska. It was suggested as a way to get Ben Nelson's vote. The only problem is, it didn't make it into the final bill. He would know that if he or his clerks had read the bill, but not if they were getting your "research" from Fox News.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Oh, I'm not surprised. Scalia however opened himself up like a fish when he scoffed at "the very idea" that he should have some idea of what he's talking about . . .
    When the legislature passed this bill, most had not read it. So how do you figure they have any more of an idea of what they are talking about?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's also painfully obvious that Scalia is taking cues from right-wing media and not the law itself. In the argument he made a snide remark about the "cornhusker kickback", which was a proposal to provide extra Medicaid funding for Nebraska. It was suggested as a way to get Ben Nelson's vote. The only problem is, it didn't make it into the final bill. He would know that if he or his clerks had read the bill, but not if they were getting your "research" from Fox News.
    well that's fitting then. legislators didnt' read it when they passed it, and the justices won't read it when they strike it down.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well that's fitting then. legislators didnt' read it when they passed it, and the justices won't read it when they strike it down.
    There's no excuse for anyone involved not reading.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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