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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    So, since the people that have insurance are already paying for these folks that don't have insurance, but still show up for care, how does having them have insurance reduce the cost?

    The amount of money paid out by the insurance company is going to increase, based on the new enrollees, but it won't be outpaced by the new enrollee premiums, so wouldn't premiums go up as a direct result?

    Or is the thought process that once everyone has insurance, doctors and insurance companies are going to just start charging 20% less?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    So, since the people that have insurance are already paying for these folks that don't have insurance, but still show up for care, how does having them have insurance reduce the cost?

    The amount of money paid out by the insurance company is going to increase, based on the new enrollees, but it won't be outpaced by the new enrollee premiums, so wouldn't premiums go up as a direct result?

    Or is the thought process that once everyone has insurance, doctors and insurance companies are going to just start charging 20% less?
    They pay for it. As the hospital doesn't have to jack up the cost to cover them, they can charge closer to what it actually cost. That $16 dollar bandaid could come back down to maybe only a couple of dollars (can't expect no gouging).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you believe that in a free market solution there wouldn't be any of a great variety of plans and price points? How is health care as a good or service different from any other?
    I believe that a lot of crap will be sold, but remember, those who need the most will not be able to afford any policy that would actually help them enough to cover costs. A high deductible would be of little help as they wouldn't ba able to afford that (though the real plan many promote is do away with third party payers altogether).

    And if there is no insurance, as some argue, then there is no plan to get. Both lead to a significant number without health care.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They pay for it. As the hospital doesn't have to jack up the cost to cover them, they can charge closer to what it actually cost. That $16 dollar bandaid could come back down to maybe only a couple of dollars (can't expect no gouging).
    Why would they, if people already pay $16 for a bandaid? You would be high to expect them to do that. Or is health care facilities the next "too much profit" bitch?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Why would they, if people already pay $16 for a bandaid? You would be high to expect them to do that. Or is health care facilities the next "too much profit" bitch?
    There is that problem, meaning they could keep gouging us, but the argument wouldn't be there, and they would have to address that. Insurance companies would then be able to argue with them, as payers, that there is no need for that cost.

    And while you can paint the too much profit strawman, the fact remains, and bandaid doesn't cost $16 dollars, and really isn't worth $16 dollars. The rationale for is that they have to pay for those who don't pay. Remove the rationale, and they have to address that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Why would they, if people already pay $16 for a bandaid? You would be high to expect them to do that. Or is health care facilities the next "too much profit" bitch?
    They would be of market competition: same reason the drugstore doesn't charge $16 for a box of bandaids.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I don't see what difference that makes. The fact is that only the individual mandate's constitutionality is being questioned.
    Actually they are also considering if the whole law needs to be thrown out if the mandate is ruled unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The entire law does not revolve around the mandate, just the bring forced to cover sick people does. you are making the same augment that the government us making the result of which is to by-pass congressional authority on policy matters.
    Without the mandate the requirement for insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions would bankrupt the insurance companies. Without the requirement of accepting people with pre-existing conditions then the whole law is pretty much useless as it is those two things that the whole law was based around in order to lower health costs and health insurance premiums. Both sides agree on this point.



    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    This needs to be done, but also repaling every law that says only a doctor can do x would be even better
    Not sure about better, but it could help.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    So, since the people that have insurance are already paying for these folks that don't have insurance, but still show up for care, how does having them have insurance reduce the cost?
    Something that I noticed in the arguements going on in SCOTUS and I agree with is that just because you are not insured and still show up to use healthcare it doesn't automatically mean that those people drive up the cost of healthcare/health insurance premiums. It is the people that default on the medical expenses that drive up those costs. A simple way to fix this would be to make it to where people could not default on medical expenses. Even if it didn't fix it straight out it would help alot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Or is the thought process that once everyone has insurance, doctors and insurance companies are going to just start charging 20% less?
    Something like this yes. Though I would contend that if everyone is required to have health insurance then insurance companies could charge whatever they want and people could do nothing about it. Congress would have to put a cap on insurance rates which could make things even worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually they are also considering if the whole law needs to be thrown out if the mandate is ruled unconstitutional.



    Without the mandate the requirement for insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions would bankrupt the insurance companies. Without the requirement of accepting people with pre-existing conditions then the whole law is pretty much useless as it is those two things that the whole law was based around in order to lower health costs and health insurance premiums. Both sides agree on this point.





    Not sure about better, but it could help.
    Like I said, you are making the same argument that the Obama administration is making. It basically asking the court to by pass Congressional authority on policy matters. The court shouldn't get involved, Congress should just have to amend the law to remove that section. if they can't then oh ****ing well and IMO it will be a good thing. It will force insurance companies to create plans to civet sick people that went bankrupt them which is easy to do.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    They would be of market competition: same reason the drugstore doesn't charge $16 for a box of bandaids.
    They all charge $16 for the bandaid, so I don't see what you are getting at. Or do you mean that insurance companies can deny payment for a billed item because of cost compared to a different locale?

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