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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #701
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just a couple of articles for you to read Adam.

    France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com

    Health care in France: facing hard choices

    Frances system is going broke. And they are desperately trying to find ways like copays, an American Insurance thing BTW, to ease their problems in budgetary shortfalls. Yet proponents like you want to run to these failing systems, even as they are trying to run away from them.

    j-mac
    Just about every country is experiencing health care inflation, but France's per capita cost is still far below ours. In France, total health care spending is 10.8% of GDP. That's almost seven full percentage points lower than ours. Can you imagine how much ass we would be kicking if we could free up 7% of GDP per year? If a developed country has GDP growth of 4% that's considered pretty damned good.

    In fact, France's per capita health care spending is just about HALF of ours. That equates to about $3,500 per person. Imagine how our economy would skyrocket if everyone had an extra $3,500 to spend ... every year!
    Last edited by AdamT; 03-29-12 at 09:48 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Just about every country is experiencing health care inflation, but France's per capita cost is still far below ours. In France, total health care spending is 10.8% of GDP. That's almost seven full percentage points lower than ours. Can you imagine how much ass we would be kicking if we could free up 7% of GDP per year? If a developed country has GDP growth of 4% that's considered pretty damned good.

    In fact, France's per capita health care spending is just about HALF of ours. That equates to about $3,500 per person. Imagine how our economy would skyrocket if everyone had an extra $3,500 to spend ... every year!
    Wow, we could buy a whole lot more cheap crap from China.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We need to.......What?

    What do Certified Nursing Asst. have to do with this?

    I am not an ex-palin....Are you?


    hahahahahahaha!


    j-mac
    My mistake. I thought you might be serious.

    Joe

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    If they vote the other way, upholding the law, then the opinion better be the most narrow opinion(i.e. health insurance market = the one and only special case ) they've ever written in their life or there will be a ****storm.

    I can see the legislation rolling off the press in my mind( Buy GM Act, Buy Organic Act, Buy Local Act, etc, etc ). Sure, some of it would be protest like( The Arm America Act: Everyone must own a gun ), while others would be truly in the mold of "I know what's best for you".
    So heads will explode?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It's not a free market as long as the paying is primarily third-party.
    I completely agree. I don't expect the company I work for to buy me groceries and I need food far more frequently than I need medical care.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Or, it could just be that once governments butt out medical care will be priced like everything else. There will be luxury "Prius" plans for those who want to "drive" a status symbol. And there will be economy plans for the more budget conscious. Free markets respond well to competition. They do not respond well in monopoly conditions.
    No, as medicine isn't really like a car. Some reduction might occur, but much of it will never be low enough for evryone to afford. People will still up, needing care, emergent care, with no way to pay.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, as medicine isn't really like a car. Some reduction might occur, but much of it will never be low enough for evryone to afford. People will still up, needing care, emergent care, with no way to pay.
    If you prefer think of health care as transportation. You can take a taxi, buy a car, take a buss, even walk. Each has different costs involved. So it will be with medicien and any other item the government doesn't screw up.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post


    Your asterisks say otherwise.
    There's a difference between being frustrated and disgusted.

    I linked you to exactly what you said.
    Not that I saw.

    Mostly because it wasn't an error. It was about the nature of the law at issue (criminal), not whether or not that law was valid. The case currently at bar isn't about criminal law.
    So you really have no understanding of the case at all. It had NOTHING to do with the fact that the Fed law was criminal. Whether or not the Fed law could stand was solely a function of whether it had the power to regulate under the Commerce Clause. That's because the federal government has no inherent police powers. They can only exercise those powers if it's incidental to another power -- in this case the power to regulate interstate commerce. Thus, your reasoning was completely circular and without merit.




    Tell me you don't actually have a law degree. Or tell me you do -- I wouldn't believe you anyway.


    Skipping the repetitive junk....

    What "relevance" does the Ryan plan have to this case?

    What "relevance" does the Ryan plan have to any argument I've made?
    The Ryan plan, as the article I cited pointed out, demonstrates how the mandate is funtionally the same as a tax, which is obviously relevant to the AIA argument. As you obviously didn't read ... or understand ... it, I'll give you the nutshell version: Ryan's plan imposes a large tax on everyone, which can be eliminated via a tax credit if someone can show that they have health insurance. That, in effect, imposes a larger penalty on the uninsured than the AHCA penalty, "forcing" everyone to buy insurance in exactly the same way (except moreso).
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If you prefer think of health care as transportation. You can take a taxi, buy a car, take a buss, even walk. Each has different costs involved. So it will be with medicien and any other item the government doesn't screw up.
    So, what are my options concerning by pass surgery? How about when my daughter needs major medical from a car accident (months of hospitalization and surgries)? Can I negotiate or barter? Sure, there would be likely more fish oil salesman, and they would likely take advantage of those with no options. But do we really want that?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, what are my options concerning by pass surgery? How about when my daughter needs major medical from a car accident (months of hospitalization and surgries)? Can I negotiate or barter? Sure, there would be likely more fish oil salesman, and they would likely take advantage of those with no options. But do we really want that?
    Actually most hospitals and rehabilitation centers will work out payment plans with a person whether they have insurance or not.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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