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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If country X has outpatient care that costs $7, and our country has outpatient care that costs $700, entitling wveryone to outpatient in country X is going to be 100 times easier in country X. In other words, maybe the care was always cheaper there in the first place.



    What's wrong is that we DO get it (one way or another) whether we pay for it or not. Thus a main feature of this problem includes out refusal to refuse.
    Maybe and maybe not, but either way, you have to ask why? If something is cheaper there, the question not being answered is why?

    Now, as for getting it one way or the other, as we have already decided to give it, the question then becomes how best to give it. I would argue our present way is the most expensive and least efficient way. If you want to argue we revisit the decision we made, we can, but do you really think we'll change our mind?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe and maybe not, but either way, you have to ask why? If something is cheaper there, the question not being answered is why?
    Yes, the answer is innovation, and R&D costs added into the American system, that we do not pass along when sharing life saving treatments.

    j-mac
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, the answer is innovation, and R&D costs added into the American system, that we do not pass along when sharing life saving treatments.

    j-mac
    I don't think that's true. Not that you can't link someone saying it is true, just as I can link someone saying it isn't so. But we have a lot of that work done at Univeristies here. And other countries do infact innovate and do R&D. So, I doubt that is the cause.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I disagree. I think the obvious best choice is:

    Option 3: establish a French-style single payer system with universal coverage. The government specifies which procedures are covered, how much they will cost, and how much will be paid to providers. The plan covers the vast majority of normal medical care but does not cover cosmetic and other elective surgery, nor does it cover every imagineable end-of-life treatment. If people want coverage for elective procedures and/or coverage for extraordinary end of life treatments they can purchase private insurance to cover those eventualities.

    I don't see how else we can deal with the fact that our doctors are grossly overpaid relative to doctors in other countries, or the fact that we grossly overpay for medications relative to other countries, or the fact that our hospital care is grossly overpriced relative to other countries.

    So it isn't unlimited medical care for everyone, but it is good medical care for everyone, and if it's not good enough then you have the option of paying extra.
    How many times do you have to be told that this is a free market economy, and it's not up to you to decide how much people get paid. If it were, I'd immediately decide you're overpaid and cut your pay in half and give it to myself, since I'm underpaid.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    From the day 2 arguements that I've been reading...



    I so agree. Insurance IS its own market seperate from health care. To use an example that others have tried to use...improperly mind you...car insurance. (yeah...couldn't help but throw that in your faces) There is also house insurance, fire insurance etc etc.
    No, it isn't separate from health care because people who do not have health insurance have a substantial effect on the cost of everyone else's health insurance. Same reason that auto insurance is mandatory and why many states have mandatory no fault insurance.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just a couple of articles for you to read Adam.

    France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com

    Health care in France: facing hard choices

    Frances system is going broke. And they are desperately trying to find ways like copays, an American Insurance thing BTW, to ease their problems in budgetary shortfalls. Yet proponents like you want to run to these failing systems, even as they are trying to run away from them.

    j-mac
    Look at what else I found that is current to this thread topic from your post:

    "It will be the generation now entering the workforce who will pay for the years of deficit spending through some mix of higher taxes and reduced access. All of this is made worse by a looming demographic crunch. With the number of French aged 65 and older expected to grow from about 16% of the population (according to Council of Europe projections in 2003) to an estimated 24% by 2030, the pool of workers contributing to the social security system will be greatly outnumbered by those needing increasing care and medical services."

    Doesn't this smack of familiarity?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    How many times do you have to be told that this is a free market economy, and it's not up to you to decide how much people get paid. If it were, I'd immediately decide you're overpaid and cut your pay in half and give it to myself, since I'm underpaid.
    How many times do YOU have to be told that the health care industry is anything but a free market?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, it isn't separate from health care because people who do not have health insurance have a substantial effect on the cost of everyone else's health insurance. Same reason that auto insurance is mandatory and why many states have mandatory no fault insurance.
    and yet how many drive around today without insurance? It didn't result in 100% of every driver has insurance.

    Also, just curious on how the manditory health care insurance is going to handle the cost of illegal aliens. We have over 12 million illegal aliens in this country. While small compared to the total population, its still a cost.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You can not state where the Constitution gives the fed powers you 'feel' it should have, so you say others are dodging, and need to focus? Get a grip.

    I have put up the long accepted definition of judicial activism, that you ignore it because it does not fit your needs/beliefs is your own issue.
    I already told you the exact line of reasoning that gives the law constitutional muster...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I would not be surprised if the mandate is found unconstitutional on more like a 7-2 vote. Tossing out the entire act may be closer.
    tossing out the entire law would be judicial activism because there isn't any dispute of the other posts of the law being constitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Odd, the NPR show today has me beliving they will not interfere with congress and will not strike the mandate down. And certainly would not strike down the centerpiece of a democratic presidents term, on a party-line vote.

    The basic case the panel made was that the commerce clause is sufficiently broad enough, that if it's fairly well defined how the mandate is tied to regulation (it appears to be), and is driven by some limiting principle(s), then the court shouldn't interefere. They believed Roberts will clearly state how this power to mandate is limited by a/b/c and thus not some widepread green light on a very wide interpretation in every other situation...and then not rule it unconstitutional.
    This is how it could go. And if it goes that way there will be no room for"now the gov can tell us to do anything" argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    They said more or less the same on the eve of the Bush v. Gore decision -- i.e., the court would not "interfere" with "Florida law."
    And they were right lol
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think that's true. Not that you can't link someone saying it is true, just as I can link someone saying it isn't so. But we have a lot of that work done at Univeristies here. And other countries do infact innovate and do R&D. So, I doubt that is the cause.
    Now wait, I think you are confusing things. You were responding to the hypothesis about country X having a $7 cost for the same thing we pay $700 for. You seem to be answering only about our own costs. And although Universities do research, it is nothing compared to the private market.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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