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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #481
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    I agree that Americans want more affordable healthcare. However, and I think (believe it or not) that the government should have a role in the solution. The problem is not Healthcare Reform. It is generally uncontested that some reform is needed. I think that it is this particular bill that is bad- an "overfixing" of the problem. Matter of fact, I don't believe that reform of the healthcare system was the legislative intent. I believe the intent was to stifle (overpower) capitalism- and that is where it will fail, I think.

    The limit of the government's involvement is to create a solution where none exists in the private marketplace. No solution currently exists for people with particular pre-existing conditions. They can not get insurance. (And this is not the insurance companies' fault, and in many cases, it isn't the patient's fault either.) This is the only area in which the government's intervention is appropriate. Because medicare already covers people who are certified as disabled, regardless of their age, it could simply be suggested that the government could pass a law making it a "disability" to have pre-existing conditions preventing coverage elsewhere. In addition to rolling back other laws and reforming tort rules, this would just about fix it.

    Everything else should be left to the marketplace. With tort reform and less government interventions, costs will come down on their own.
    So all of us healthy people should keep paying the insurers and until we get sick, and then the company drops us and the Govt. pays? You think that will bring costs down?
    A persons healthcare is no place for a "free market", 1st of all there is no such thing and no one shops around when they have a heart attack.
    Why should a company make 20% to 35% profit on our premiums for cutting checks to providers? What good do they do anyway?

  2. #482
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Typical attitude. Just leave business alone and they'll make money, everything will be OK, they can police themselves. Hence, the 2008 Crash.
    I bet you have never actually considered that the reason why health care costs so much is because of government involvement.

  3. #483
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I bet you have never actually considered that the reason why health care costs so much is because of government involvement.
    I use my imagination for more important things.


    Ed:
    It's amazing how some people carry on about "government involvement" but stick their nose into people's morality every chance they get.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-28-12 at 10:25 PM.
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  4. #484
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    And these attempts to save face and make it look like I'm bailing? Nobody who's dealt with you over the long term buys it.
    Not concerned about that. Those who speak as you do don't have much to brag about in terms of reputation. But it is never me walking away calling someone names. That I can point to rather clearly.

    But frankly this type of conversation is pointless, and it was initiated by you. That says what needs to be said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Perhaps the government should just completely get out of its involvement in health care. If people want it let them buy it. If they don't, they don't.
    That is an option, but we will have to turn people away, even those with emergency conditions, and health over all in this country will suffer, as more will be without access. There are consequences for that as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #486
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    I'm tried of seeing "tort reform" as a viable solution to the health care cost problem. Its a drop in the bucket and many who purpose it want to limit total payout to the point that the reimbursement may not cover the cost to fix the botched medical procedure.

    What needs to happen is force insurance companies to offer insurance to the sick: we'll cover all of your medical needs outside your preexisting condition alignments, force insurance to compete with each other: reduce some regulation that prevents insurance company start-ups, allow insurance to be sold nationally, force medical providers to bring cost more in line with what they charge insurance companies: if an insurance company is charged 10000 an individual shouldn't be charged 4x that amount, destroy the monopoly of care: tell states to **** themselves and remove the road blocks that prevent over seas trained doctors from practicing and non-doctor personnel from preforming "doctor duties" i.e. a ears, eyes, and throat "doctors" duties can be provided by a nurse, stiches fine by an RN, midwifery, etc

    The above will do wonders to reduce cost but outside libertarian circles no one is suggesting to actually take on insurance companies or doctors. One of the reason republocrats want insurance sold across state lines is because 1} state laws prevent cost from actually decreasing because most states require certain things to be in their minimum coverage and 2) economics of scale would further enrich the largest insurance companies who already nearly operate nation wide

    Personally, I think the public option combined with all these other libertarian proposals would lead to the best and cheapest health care in the world. In fact, the public option is extremely ready to implement, simply allow people to buy into medicaid! (I also think medicaid, in this form should replace medicare but that's a different topic)
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But frankly this type of conversation is pointless
    As most conversations with you turn out to be, yes.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's amazing to me that you also trust that the justice system is not biased towards big money lawyers and therefore ALL abuses of the system are swiftly punished and punshed so firmly that they would never do those things again. As long as we have a private system that values profit and shareholder value above peoples lives there will be abuse of the pre-existing condition "loophole". I sincerly hope you are not one of the employees who's job performance and salary is judged by the amount of "rescessions" you get. But the reality is that as much as I would like to "trust you" insurers are all tarred with the same brush thru no fault of your own. We need to end the madness of accepting premiums until someone gets sick and THEN deciding they aren't covered. 20,000 Americans faced that nightmare in the last 5 years.
    Recession is a period of economic downturn. No, I did not get paid based on the number of recessions. Did you by chance mean recission?

    You may be surprised by the number of insureds that lie on insurance applications. Yes, I guess it is possible that some "forgot" they had a previous MI (heart attack) or CVA (stroke) - but I doubt it. It would be ideal if prospective insureds were just honest on their application, then they would have nothing to worry about. Your link from an obviously biased source not withstanding. And yes, the DOI will come down hard on an insurance company engaged in behaviour that is unethical. Sorry that you disagree, but I am certain of it.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Looking of the free ride I see. Why am I not surprised?

    Rates are based on how much they PAY OUT to those that actually treat people. If you can't see how limiting their take to 20% keeps them in check then I give up.
    Why could they not pay out more, keep more and raise the rates? If it's an 80/20 cut, why can't they just spend more, keep more, and charge more?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why could they not pay out more, keep more and raise the rates? If it's an 80/20 cut, why can't they just spend more, keep more, and charge more?
    He uses the same kind of argument that those who want to impose "windfall taxes" on oil companies use. It's all totally clueless about how a business works.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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