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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Tort reform cannot undo the massive amount of problems we have. To have pronounced it as some silver bullet to solve all problems is incorrect. It's one step in many that have to take place to make a dent in the fubar insurance process which, if Obamacare is allowed to stay intact, will get even worse... which is almost unimaginable.
    I agree with the first part. Regarding the second, I think you have it 180 degrees wrong.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Tort reform cannot undo the massive amount of problems we have. To have pronounced it as some silver bullet to solve all problems is incorrect. It's one step in many that have to take place to make a dent in the fubar insurance process which, if Obamacare is allowed to stay intact, will get even worse... which is almost unimaginable.
    I remembered this story on tort reform: FactCheck.org : Summit Extras: Medical Malpractice

    As Republican Rep. Dave Camp correctly pointed out, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that limiting malpractice liability would "reduce the federal deficit by more than $50 billion." More precisely, thatís $54 billion over 10 years, according to the CBO. But CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf noted the savings would "reduce total U.S. health care spending by about 0.5 percent (about $11 billion in 2009)."
    Tort reform would be a small part of any health care reform bill in terms of cost.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    Don't dance on the coffin just yet.
    Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Bombs on Day 2 of Obamacare Supreme Court Hearings @PolicyMic | Ryan Gorman

    The Obama administration might want to ask for a court-appointed attorney or try to bring Johnny Cochran back from the grave, Solicitor General Donald Verrilli is as overmatched in Supreme Court oral arguments as Tim Tebow was against the Patriots in the NFL this past season.

    Verrilli took hard hits from all angles on health care debate day two. Obamacare was compared to burial insurance and broccoli by the Supreme Court. Justices snapped increduously at his answers like a defensive lineman with Tebow's long throwing motion in his sights.

    From explaining how a market with participants who donít know when they will need health care is different from the food market, to how requiring insurance isn't a purchase mandate, it just wasnít the solicitor general's day. Verrilli never stood a chance.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    If the whole thing get's tossed out, what happens?
    This close to an election and with Republicans dominating part of congress, there's not going to be another attempt at any time soon. How long do we have to wait? Another 18 years, the current system will not survive another 18 years.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    If the whole thing get's tossed out, what happens?
    This close to an election and with Republicans dominating part of congress, there's not going to be another attempt at any time soon. How long do we have to wait? Another 18 years, the current system will not survive another 18 years.
    American's want some sort of affordable healthcare, so I do believe the WH, Senate and Congress will find another route. This should have been done to start with, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What is scary beyond imagination is that the entire bill will be decided by one man.

    The framers intended the Supreme Court to be an unbiased third party, yet we have one justice who basically wrote the damn thing, another who considers our constitution inferior to that of South Africa, that will be voting on this.

    The bill is illegal, plain and simple. Liberals can hate the Constitution to its core, but it was written solely to protect our liberties from the exact likes of you.

    Our second Civil War will be fought over these very issues in short order, I'm sad to say.
    I'm sorry but which justice wrote the law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Don't forget that pre-existing conditions will also be reinstated without the mandate
    So insurance companies can continue paying big bucks to the people who's sole job is denying coverage to sick people. Aren't you glad so much of your premiums go to those important people?
    The court won't rule on that issue because there isn't any constitutional Queston in regards to telling as business what it can and can't do. If the court does rule on that they'll VCR over turning 100s of years if legal precedence and open the flood gates. That's an issue confess will have to address

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    If the whole thing get's tossed out, what happens?
    This close to an election and with Republicans dominating part of congress, there's not going to be another attempt at any time soon. How long do we have to wait? Another 18 years, the current system will not survive another 18 years.
    if the bill is tossed, it will take bankruptcies over health expenses for the children of those protected (grandfathered) who currently think the failed employer based health system is just gravy.

    no matter how good the policy that they got twenty years ago is, their kids will still be screwed. and they won't have enough money to help. that will wake many people up, and then we'll start discussing a public option again, which should have been the compromise instead of a ridiculous mandate to buy for-profit insurance.

    how long will it take? it's hard to know.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I work for an insurance company and one of my first jobs with them was as a claim examiner and I am an associate of life and health claims , so have had multiple tests I had to take.

    Insurance companies do not have banks of employees whose job it is to deny coverage. When a prospective insured lies on the application to make themsevles appear more healthy then they really are and those lies, if known, would have caused the insurance company to not offer insurance, the contract is viewed as never having been issued. This is plain contract law and is not unique to insurance companies.

    The state's departments of insurance (DOI) will help a harmed insured and the courts are an option. And yes, the courts have found against insurance companies when they were in the wrong and the DOI is a strong proponent for insureds.

    I will absolutely acknowledge that some insurance companies have acted wrongly and those companies, once caught, face huge penalties that cost them huge sums of money in both fines and restrictions they have to face. Trust me, insurance companies bend over backwards to ensure they are in compliance with the DOI and they are audited quite often to ensure they are following applicable rules and laws.
    It's amazing to me that you also trust that the justice system is not biased towards big money lawyers and therefore ALL abuses of the system are swiftly punished and punshed so firmly that they would never do those things again. As long as we have a private system that values profit and shareholder value above peoples lives there will be abuse of the pre-existing condition "loophole". I sincerly hope you are not one of the employees who's job performance and salary is judged by the amount of "rescessions" you get. But the reality is that as much as I would like to "trust you" insurers are all tarred with the same brush thru no fault of your own. We need to end the madness of accepting premiums until someone gets sick and THEN deciding they aren't covered. 20,000 Americans faced that nightmare in the last 5 years.
    i

    “Pre-Existing Conditions” Affect Millions of Americans
    A large proportion of Americans have health conditions that insurance companies can qualify as “pre-existing conditions.”
    A pre-existing condition is a medical condition that existed before someone applies for or enrolls in a new health insurance policy. It can be something as prevalent as heart disease – which affects one in three adults1 – or something as life-changing as cancer, which affects 11 million Americans.2

    But a pre-existing condition does not have to be a serious disease like cancer or heart disease. Even relatively minor conditions like hay fever, asthma, or previous sports injuries can trigger high premiums or denials of coverage.3

    Unattainable Health Coverage
    Insurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions makes adequate health insurance unavailable to millions of Americans.
    In 45 states across the country, insurance companies can discriminate against people based on their pre-existing conditions when they try to purchase health insurance directly from insurance companies in the individual insurance market.4 Insurers can deny them coverage, charge higher premiums, and/or refuse to cover that particular medical condition.

    A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults5 – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years.6

    In another survey, one in 10 people with cancer said they could not obtain health coverage, and six percent said they lost their coverage, because of being diagnosed with the disease.7

    It is still legal in nine states for insurers to reject applicants who are survivors of domestic violence, citing the history of domestic violence as a pre-existing condition.8

    Even when offering coverage, insurers can exclude whole categories of illnesses related to a pre-existing condition. For example, someone with a pre-existing condition of hay fever could have any respiratory system disease – such as bronchitis or pneumonia – excluded from coverage.9
    Losing Coverage When You Need It Most
    Thousands of Americans also lose health insurance each year through a practice called rescission.
    When a person is diagnosed with an expensive condition such as cancer, some insurance companies review his/her initial health status questionnaire. In most states’ individual insurance market, insurance companies can retroactively cancel the entire policy if any condition was missed – even if the medical condition is unrelated, and even if the person was not aware of the condition at the time. Coverage can also be revoked for all members of a family, even if only one family member failed to disclose a medical condition.10

    A recent Congressional investigation into this practice found nearly 20,000 rescissions from three large insurers over five years, saving them $300 million in medical claims11 – $300 million that instead had to come out of the pockets of people who thought they were insured, or became bad debt for health care providers.

    At least one insurance company has been found to evaluate employee performance based in part on the amount of money an employee saved the company through rescissions.12 Simply put, these insurance company employees are encouraged to revoke sick people’s health coverage.
    Coverage Denied: How the Current Health Insurance System Leaves Millions Behind
    Last edited by iguanaman; 03-28-12 at 08:32 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That's because it's already been covered. Declining to ride the merry-go-round one more time is hardly being "non-responsive." You just need a new argument.
    I know you either think it was or that this works as a diversion. I don't much care either way. But whatever you want to call what you did, it wasn't convincing or particularly on point.

    It's fine to say you want to move on, or just quit replying.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's not a limit. If they want more money, why couldn't they just raise premiums so that their 20% cut covers their expenses and salary goals?

    Sounds like a way to encourage continued overconsumption of medical care. For every 80 cents patients spend on themselves, the company gets 20. It's virtually a cost-plus arrangement.
    I'm confused....So you would rather they pocket more of your premiums? That's 20% is LESS than the 28 to 35% that insurers get now and all rate increases will be evaluated using that criteria. If they spent less than 20% on HC then NO rate increase.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 03-28-12 at 08:39 PM.

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