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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #401
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Then why bother bringing up which party brought up the idea? Because you care, as long as it supports your conclusion.

    Some members on both sides of the debate have swapped their position. Bringing up one, while thinking the other is unimportant - results in you comping off as a political hack.
    Here's the post you originally responded to, do you see ANY mention of political party in there?
    In medical emergencies time is crucial.

    At death there's plenty of time to decide what your finances are so that a rational decision on whether you get the metal or pine coffin and a marble or limestone marker can be made. Should we wait a day or two after an accident to do the same for the injured so we can figure out if they get the bandage or the boot?
    I'm not the hack, you are.


    I don't give a rats ass which party supports what I think is right and if we're handing out free opinions around here then IMO that's 99.99% of what's wrong in America right now. Too damn many idiots blindly following the Big D or Big R and forgetting the real issues and the real people those issues are discussing. The ****ing two-party nightmare makes me sick to my stomach and, quite frankly, people trying to push me into a D or R box make me puke. You seem to be one of them.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-28-12 at 03:43 PM.
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  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I would say it does matter. Right now there is little oversight and no certainty that the price hikes are equal to the cost.

    And forced is an odd word.
    No it's not, it's just unflattering to legislation that forces citizens to do something.

    I think we can be specific (and still not be a death panel). And we will pay that cost one way or another. Seems prudent, just like with fire, that we plan for that.
    Again, if the intended outcome to provide whatever medical care any person needs throughout their life, regardless of cost or ability to pay, you need to force anyone who has any money left to pay.

    No. We've merely agreed collectively to tackle that area of concern and solve that problem.
    It's too bad more than half the country doesn't understand that this "solution" directly and immediately worsens the problem.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 03-28-12 at 03:48 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What is scary beyond imagination is that the entire bill will be decided by one man.

    The framers intended the Supreme Court to be an unbiased third party, yet we have one justice who basically wrote the damn thing, another who considers our constitution inferior to that of South Africa, that will be voting on this.

    The bill is illegal, plain and simple. Liberals can hate the Constitution to its core, but it was written solely to protect our liberties from the exact likes of you.

    Our second Civil War will be fought over these very issues in short order, I'm sad to say.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Here's the post you originally responded to, do you see ANY mention of political party in there?
    I'm not the hack, you are.
    You do realize that there were at least two posters claiming that this was a republican idea? Somehow, I responded to your post, when I obviously meant to respond to one of the posters related to my response. Surely you realized that my response doesn't make any sense in relation to what you said and it was almost certainly meant for someone else. Or did you really not have anny clue?

    My PC has been acting up, so I have to take a few extra steps to post here - which is how my mistake occured.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    They thought they did when the case was before the DC Appellate Court too, and the same kinds of arguments were made by those judges that are being made at SCOTUS. In the end, it was Conservative judge and Reagan appointee Laurence Silberman who cast the deciding vote upholding Obamacare.

    Frankly, this could go either way, and if Kennedy takes the position that uninsured people seeking medical treatment in emergency rooms constitutes the initiation of commerce by them, then Obamacare gets upheld. The thinking is that, if you engage in commerce, then you MUST pay for what you purchase, rather than steal it. And make no doubt about it - When the uninsured go into the emergency room for treatment, they ARE purchasing a service, since they do receive a bill afterwards. Therefore, they are engaging in commerce. I cannot make any kind of prediction except that, if Kennedy makes this assumption, he may even pull Chief Justice Roberts to the side of upholding Obamacare too, making it a 6-3 decision. But that is a mighty BIG if.

    So what will be the outcome? I haven't a freakin' clue. LOL.
    Totally agree. I read that page and the other add on pages and it seems the legal eagles sitting ringside don't have a clue either.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    They thought they did when the case was before the DC Appellate Court too, and the same kinds of arguments were made by those judges that are being made at SCOTUS. In the end, it was Conservative judge and Reagan appointee Laurence Silberman who cast the deciding vote upholding Obamacare.

    Frankly, this could go either way, and if Kennedy takes the position that uninsured people seeking medical treatment in emergency rooms constitutes the initiation of commerce by them, then Obamacare gets upheld. The thinking is that, if you engage in commerce, then you MUST pay for what you purchase, rather than steal it. And make no doubt about it - When the uninsured go into the emergency room for treatment, they ARE purchasing a service, since they do receive a bill afterwards. Therefore, they are engaging in commerce. I cannot make any kind of prediction except that, if Kennedy makes this assumption, he may even pull Chief Justice Roberts to the side of upholding Obamacare too, making it a 6-3 decision. But that is a mighty BIG if.

    So what will be the outcome? I haven't a freakin' clue. LOL.
    It is true that nobody knows which way they will decide. It is pretty pathetic as it seems pretty damn clear cut. But goverment has a history of overstepping their constitutional authority, heck even the founders did it.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What is scary beyond imagination is that the entire bill will be decided by one man.

    The framers intended the Supreme Court to be an unbiased third party, yet we have one justice who basically wrote the damn thing, another who considers our constitution inferior to that of South Africa, that will be voting on this.

    The bill is illegal, plain and simple. Liberals can hate the Constitution to its core, but it was written solely to protect our liberties from the exact likes of you.

    Our second Civil War will be fought over these very issues in short order, I'm sad to say.


    Yup, that's the way the Supremes roll. I'm sure the framers didn't think the US or the Constitution would last as long as we/it have, but we have and we'll make it through this too.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, if the individual mandate is rejected, Obamcare loses its ability to "attract" customers to "Fed Cross" in sufficient numbers to adequately fund everyone's medical procedures, thereby making approval of procedures funded by the government insurance carrier much more dfficult to obtain than privately and at least equally as expensive regarding deductible and co-pay.

    Without the individual mandate, all we (mostly) do is just add another medical insurance carrier to the list, a government-run medical insurance carrier.
    Don't forget that pre-existing conditions will also be reinstated without the mandate
    So insurance companies can continue paying big bucks to the people who's sole job is denying coverage to sick people. Aren't you glad so much of your premiums go to those important people?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No it's not, it's just unflattering to legislation that forces citizens to do something.
    On that I disagree. There is virtually no legislation that is pasted that someone doesn't object to. So, we are always forced, if we use your view as the guiding element, to do something. But this is a representative government, and I don't think force is the proper word.

    Again, if the intended outcome to provide whatever medical care any person needs throughout their life, regardless of cost or ability to pay, you need to force anyone who has any money left to pay.
    Minimal needed care. And we really can't spend much more than we are already. Remember, we're paying for it now. And in a very loose and ad hoc way. We would just be putting some method to that paying.

    It's too bad more than half the country doesn't understand that this "solution" directly and immediately worsens the problem.
    Not sure that it does. But I certainly agree it is not the best solution. I'm not sure we can get worse than we are without reform. That said, I would prefer that our elected representatives went to work to improve rather than court battles to take us back to nothing done.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You do realize that there were at least two posters claiming that this was a republican idea? Somehow, I responded to your post, when I obviously meant to respond to one of the posters related to my response. Surely you realized that my response doesn't make any sense in relation to what you said and it was almost certainly meant for someone else. Or did you really not have anny clue?

    My PC has been acting up, so I have to take a few extra steps to post here - which is how my mistake occured.
    I assumed you made the same dumbass mistake I've seen a dozen times on here. I take a position and somebody's pea-brain interprets it as a declaration of overall political intent. You're not the first, you probably won't be the last - and I'll lay into the next one just like I did you.


    BTW: UHC was a Republican idea first introduced by Tricky Dicky a long time ago. We discussed him (though not the UHC issue) in Current Events class.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-28-12 at 04:10 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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