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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #351
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Honestly....if the mandate is shot down it's a pretty short run victory for Conservatism. You basically take off the table the "conservative" option of fixing healthcare and holding down costs. All that's pretty much left is an employer mandate or single payer. It may not be in 5 or 10 years but healcare will be revisited and now the "free market" option may be off the table via a conservative supreme court.
    Thats very nice spin... but it will basically overturn the crown jewel of President Obama's first term. That will have a domino effect. Now while disneydude blames "getting stuck with" the mandate and blames it on blue-dogs and Republicans, the fact is Pelosi and Reid were the architects of this bill and they saw this as the best option to get passed by Congress. No one twisted Pelosi or Reid or Obama's arm. Obama gave this to his Democratic friends and was instrubmental in it's crafting as well as it's support - remember he supported this bill for over a year. The blame stuff doesn't flush nor does minimizing the political fallout of this being overturned.

    What this will do is make it very difficult for people and States to understand what they need to do. The question then quickly becomes when Congress goes back to square one and either saves portions of the bill or starts over, how and what will it look like? Will it get passed by Congress? Polarization will be at an all time high if it's struck down in June and nothing will happen until after the election. So we're looking at 2013 before this is even broached again, unless some emergency provisions are put in place so the entire health care system doesn't collapse... what it will do is provide yet another opportunity for American citizens to vote for Congressional membership who will, hopefully, put in place a revised health care system that doesn't bankrupt us and that can cover the most amount of people without forcing people to purchase said insurance.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Anyone but me notice that 99.9% of the lefts arguments FOR the mandate, have nothing to do with the Constitution. It all goes back to 'fairness' and other nonsense.
    The supreme court can easily rule in the case without allowing their ruling to affect anything else. Since health care is a unique case and because of how broad the commerce clause is the argument could very well stand in court based on the constitution based on general welfare clause, necessary and proper clause, commerce clause and right of taxing and levying fines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Looking mighty left.
    Not at all. I'm simply saying how, either way the court rules Obama can claim victory. See I was right its constitutional or see I was right about the public option. I personally would prefer insurance to go nacho to being just catastrophic coverage and have the various monopolies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Has not one whit to do with constitutionality.
    it does, but the heritage foundations arguments in support of the law do since they did do a "is it constitutional" test (like they do witty most things). See above

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    it does
    No. Who came up with it has nothing to do with constitutionality.
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  4. #354
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    And what did democrats say about the original propsals that a few conservatives (but most did not) like?
    Don't know and don't care since I'm none of those - and all of them, depending on the topic.


    When a person opts out of health care, as in they can afford it but choose not to, then they should expect the ambulance to leave them lying at the side of the road if they have an accident.

    When a person opts out of health care for 30 years, while others pay during that 30 years, then they should expect to pay a LOT more if they decide to opt in at age 50. If the insurance companies worked that way I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you've opted out for 30 years and can't afford it at age 50 that's not my problem. If you get seriously ill at 40 and want to opt in but can't afford it that's not my problem. If you have had the ability to pay and didn't then don't expect me to cover your ass when I've been paying all along. But unlike most liberals I'm perfectly happy and willing to let your carcass rot in the ditch if you decide to opt out - good food for raccoon, fox, and other wildlife.



    Ed:
    I think social health care is a good thing but I won't force anyone to join. But to me it's a one-time offer. You're in or you're out - no changing your mind later unless you're willing to pay a huge fee - cash up front - to make up for your lack of prior investment. It's like a retirement account. If you expect your IRA to yield $200k after you retire, but you wait 'til you're 50 to start investing, then you'll have to pay a lot more into the account then I will if I started at 20.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-28-12 at 02:10 PM.
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  5. #355
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The mandate was a poor Republican idea that we got stuck with when a handful of bluedogs joined the Republicans in opposing the public option which was a far superior idea. I hope that this POS DOES get squashed and we can go back to getting what the American people wanted in the first place, a strong healthcare law with the public option.
    Hahaha, you have a short memory. The public option is precisely what the public didn't want.
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  6. #356
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    No, I didn't forget. Nor did I forget that the Democrats screamed 'UNCONSTITUTIONAL' at the time. And eventually the GOP figured out that the Dems were right hence dropping it. Now it appears the roles have been reversed. What happened? Did the Dems forget their arguing point or are they just being contrarian?
    Wow, you have a fertile imagination!
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  7. #357
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Thanks for trying, but it's still an idiotic argument. You see, health insurance, like all insurance, is about probability. Even if you aren't sick now, your participation or lack of partiicpation in the insurance market affects everyone's costs.
    But car insurance is not mandate by the Constitution. As Kennedy pointed out, "asking whether Congress’s power to regulate commerce allows it to create commerce to then regulate" is constitutional.

  8. #358
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post


    You did no such thing. Nothing I said had anything to do with who pays for what.

    "Will do" does not equal "is doing," and to say it does is idiotic. That's my argument. You haven't touched it. I think you know you can't, so you have to throw as much spaghetti against the wall as you possibly can in order to distract.
    I did. Go back and look. But to address my point, it has to. otherwise, it's an apple to tree frog comparison, which it was actually.

    And as a group, they do. It is doing. We know that will happen.

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  9. #359
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I did. Go back and look.
    I looked. You didn't.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #360
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Richard Nixon pushed for a national healthcare system. If Obamacare is struck down, hopefully this country will find it in its brain & heart to follow the wisdom of Nixon on this issue.
    I would be surprised if we could as a country get beyond the misinformation and fear mongering that opponents will present to actually discuss merit of such a plan.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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