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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The poor, poor, white Christian male. They are so picked on. You're so silly.

    No, your editing was false, but you know that. It's just easier for you to play that game instead of addressing the issue.
    What part did you disagree with?

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Never suggested that was what we needed. Just want you to realized that firing people means less jobs, and that the ONLY way government can do much of anythign about unemployment is to hire people. I'm asking for logic thought here.
    Then let us go with logic. Every time a federal worker gets hired at least one individual does not get hired in the private sector. Government can do plenty to influence employment. First they could roll back the onerous, massive heavy burdens of regulations. There re more than 80,000 rules and regulations that affect businesses and people. Every month find the one that hurts businesses the most and repeal it. For good measure put the administrator who signed it into prison for harming the people. Each month find the next worst one. Repeal it and have the idiot that sighed it go to prison to replace the first one. Repeat until there is full employment.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I think we've had this conversation on another forum . . . You worked for a firm that was subcontracted to troubleshoot a problem. You have a very bad attitude toward union employment to begin with, and that kind of a projection comes through in conversation, which means you were being rude, so those steel workers saw you coming.
    Nice try. We were assigned a union minder when we entered the facility. It was planned.

    Uh, no. You were assigned a guy to help with the physical part of the work, and my original statement about protecting work still stands as well. You are really exagerating this story of yours to feed your prejudice and create misinformed rumor.
    He had a pad of paper. He created a work slip and 20 minutes to an hour later a couple of union laborers showed up to lift the edge of the printer so I could get the serial number and model number. I not only could have done it myself but the whole job could have been done in two days. With the union "help" it took more than a week. Only a union thug thinks this is a good idea.

    Labor unions, like any other organizations are made of many types of people that have many types of ideas on an across the board subject matter.
    True. and irrelevant.

    Unions are not led by one specific political outlook: I have met many union people who "hate Obama" etc, so again, your assertion is empty and without any merit. And of course you end this thought too with an unsubstantiated opinion that adds up to zero.
    I see. How many unions give political contributions to democrats? And how many to Republicans? More importantly how many public sector unions give to each?

    Labor unions are only instituted in companies that create such draconinan mangement that employees collect in order to protect themselves.
    And that is why private sector unions are dying off. They are not needed. But public sector unions are growing. Hmm. Do they need protection from the taxpayer?

    Most of the heavy industries began organizing in the 19th century: the Philidelphia shoe cobblers orgainzed in 1790, so labor unions are as American as apple pie and founded on the ideal of the ideal of the Us Constitution, thus outfits like the Steel Workers union will just brush your comments away like dust on a table.
    Uh-huh. Labor unions are a European socialist idea.


    Opinions like yours are just so uninformed as to be funny; and immature actually: devoid of any substanative experience or cognitive ability with a subject, thus the (chuckle); so I'm glad you like that: it says a lot.
    You are entitled to believe so. And yes, the chuckle remains the best part of your posts.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Nice try. We were assigned a union minder when we entered the facility. It was planned.
    Of course it was planned; you just didn't show up and knock on the door! And the "union members" were shop workers, so, your point means nothing.


    He had a pad of paper. He created a work slip and 20 minutes to an hour later a couple of union laborers showed up to lift the edge of the printer so I could get the serial number and model number. I not only could have done it myself but the whole job could have been done in two days. With the union "help" it took more than a week. Only a union thug thinks this is a good idea.
    The guy with the pad of paper was probably a foreman and you say that two other guys showed to lift the printers . . . and then you say that you could have lifted them yourself: your story doesn't make sense. The idea of doing it in just two days as opposed to a week sounds like more hyperbole.


    True. and irrelevant.
    I'm glad you agre that's it's true; because it is. It is not irrelevant however, as you asserted that labor unions are steeped in socialism when indeed they are not: you just admitted that.



    I see. How many unions give political contributions to democrats? And how many to Republicans? More importantly how many public sector unions give to each?
    How many corps give to the Republican party? How many corps give to both parties to cover their bets? You should know that the Teamsters backed Ronald Reagan in 1980; not becasue we liked him, quite the contrary, but becasue of Jimmy Carter's signing of the National Motor Carrier Act of 1980 which broke the back of the American trucking industry: it was the only time I ever saw both union and companies fighting together to save themselves.


    And that is why private sector unions are dying off. They are not needed. But public sector unions are growing. Hmm. Do they need protection from the taxpayer?
    Again, more nonsense I'm afraid. American labor was intentionally targetd by the Reagan adminstration, the Thatcher adminstration in England, and for thirty years the corps have legislated and out spent labor for the purpose of making it ineffective. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to all the illegal aliens for the expressed purpose of driving down wages: Allen Greenspan used to go on about "wage inflation", which is just BS. It has been a conserted effort, and according to labor dept statistics teh national average for an hourly wage is $19 an hour. In 1983, the Teamsters paid $13.07 (I still have a pay stub). So wages have been intentionally supressed and reveresed under Republican leadership, and they're trying to destroy the pension system so they have control of that money as well; which is directly related to the subject of this thread.


    Uh-huh. Labor unions are a European socialist idea.

    You are entitled to believe so. And yes, the chuckle remains the best part of your posts.
    Uh, wrong agin: when labor, as we know it, started in the US in 1790, socialism as even a concept, let alone a government practice, did not exist. Labor as it's been raised in Europe goes back to the trade guilds, so your assesment is without merit whatsoever.

    I submit, that you have a very badd attitude of labor based on envy, and that attitude will not change.

    I submit that you are making up your "Pittsbugh Steel" story as you go along: none of it makes sense and is very weak just on it's face.

    I submit that you have no knowledge of labor; or for that matter, American history as it relates to labor, so you just hide behind the "socialism" assertion becasue you lack the ability to argue your case effectively.
    Last edited by jet57; 04-19-12 at 04:52 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Then let us go with logic. Every time a federal worker gets hired at least one individual does not get hired in the private sector. Government can do plenty to influence employment. First they could roll back the onerous, massive heavy burdens of regulations. There re more than 80,000 rules and regulations that affect businesses and people. Every month find the one that hurts businesses the most and repeal it. For good measure put the administrator who signed it into prison for harming the people. Each month find the next worst one. Repeal it and have the idiot that sighed it go to prison to replace the first one. Repeat until there is full employment.
    It doesn't work that way. There is no connection between and federal worker and private sector job. Both hire, and there is still not enough to around. Eliminating one who hires just means one less job.

    Rest is another topic. I like to try and deal with one at a time.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Then let us go with logic. Every time a federal worker gets hired at least one individual does not get hired in the private sector. Government can do plenty to influence employment. First they could roll back the onerous, massive heavy burdens of regulations. There re more than 80,000 rules and regulations that affect businesses and people. Every month find the one that hurts businesses the most and repeal it. For good measure put the administrator who signed it into prison for harming the people. Each month find the next worst one. Repeal it and have the idiot that sighed it go to prison to replace the first one. Repeat until there is full employment.
    Private and government employment are in two different camps: one is not dependent upon the other; unless of course you're talking about the Pentagon budget, which could use some trimming - oh wait, that war stuff - too big to fail; sorry.

    So, name somoe of those 80,000 rules and regulations, and then perhaps divide the number of different types of businesses, by 80,000 and see what you come up with. That is to say; your assertion of 80, 000 is taken from someone like Larz Larson or someother right-wing radio dolt and doesn't add up to a hill of beans without some sort of cooberation.

    Regualtions and employment are not mutually exclusive, adn I challenge you to prove otherwise. And again; which regulation hurts business? Name it; name them . . .

    Full employment is greatly dependent upon the strength of the workforce: employment is created; not just by market demand, but by location demand as well: like the "Buy American" kick that's going on now . . . Pretty soon, the American workforce: the spending public (achaaa) will start to demand that what we buy is made here rather than there; so that (we) can earn here what we spend here.

    What a concept!! The days of overseas subcontracting are coming to end - watch.

    Your anti-regulation campaign is stumping for coporate plutocracy I'm afraid and has no bassis in reality.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post

    Uh, wrong agin: when labor, as we know it, started in the US in 1790, socialism as even a concept, let alone a government practice, did not exist. Labor as it's been raised in Europe goes back to the trade guilds, so your assesment is without merit whatsoever.

    I submit, that you have a very badd attitude of labor based on envy, and that attitude will not change.

    I submit that you are making up your "Pittsbugh Steel" story as you go along: none of it makes sense and is very weak just on it's face.

    I submit that you have no knowledge of labor; or for that matter, American history as it relates to labor, so you just hide behind the "socialism" assertion becasue you lack the ability to argue your case effectively.
    I submit that you have time to grow up now that you are free of the union you were in.
    I submit that you are unable to accept the Pittsburgh Steel story because you do not want to admit that unions behave as I described.
    I submit that your history of the labor movement is colored by your life immersed in unionism.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It doesn't work that way. There is no connection between and federal worker and private sector job. Both hire, and there is still not enough to around. Eliminating one who hires just means one less job.

    Rest is another topic. I like to try and deal with one at a time.
    Yeah. That is why we are doing so well. The dollars that pay the federal worker must come from an individual who created wealth, be borrowed or be printed. When the money is taken, through taxes, out of the private sector it cannot be used in the private sector. it is lost. The other two forms of theft are just a bit different in how the thievery occurs.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Private and government employment are in two different camps: one is not dependent upon the other; unless of course you're talking about the Pentagon budget, which could use some trimming - oh wait, that war stuff - too big to fail; sorry.
    I understand that since you were in a union during your formative years that you inclination is likely to be anti-American. Understood.

    So, name somoe of those 80,000 rules and regulations, and then perhaps divide the number of different types of businesses, by 80,000 and see what you come up with. That is to say; your assertion of 80, 000 is taken from someone like Larz Larson or someother right-wing radio dolt and doesn't add up to a hill of beans without some sort of cooberation.
    I read this twice. I think you were going somewhere with the beginning of your statement, farted, and ended up somewhere else.

    Regulations take more than a trillion dollars out of the economy in compliance costs. Is your argument that taking a trillion dollars from the productive is not a burden on them?

    Regualtions and employment are not mutually exclusive, adn I challenge you to prove otherwise. And again; which regulation hurts business? Name it; name them . . .
    Sigh. I cannot fix stupid. No one can.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Yeah. That is why we are doing so well. The dollars that pay the federal worker must come from an individual who created wealth, be borrowed or be printed. When the money is taken, through taxes, out of the private sector it cannot be used in the private sector. it is lost. The other two forms of theft are just a bit different in how the thievery occurs.
    Yes, it is paid for by taxes. We all know that. And during our most successful years of this nation, the wealthy paid more in taxes than they do now. How terrible.

    Still, that is another issue. The fact remains, once you fire someone, they are unemployed. And taxes don't effect jobs in the private sector much at all. Unemployment will hurt them much more, as there will be less people with the money to buy anything. You do need to know how this works. Employers don't take tax cuts and create jobs, and if there are buyers, tax increases won't stop them from meeting the need of buyers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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