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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Except that is not the way it works in the real world. Union thugs make deals with democrat politicians. The politician gets elected with the help of union "volunteers". The union gets big pay and/or benefit increases. The politicians get kickbacks called donations to their campaigns. The cycle repeats until we become Greece.
    Yeah, I know that is how you approach it. But the fact, and it is a fact, is that leaders answer to everyone. Business, worker, retired folks, poor folks, rich folks, and so on. It does no one any good to be fiscally irresponsibile. And we can all reward or kick out anyone who doesn't behave in the best interests of all. If we don't, blame us.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yeah, I know that is how you approach it. But the fact, and it is a fact, is that leaders answer to everyone. Business, worker, retired folks, poor folks, rich folks, and so on. It does no one any good to be fiscally irresponsibile. And we can all reward or kick out anyone who doesn't behave in the best interests of all. If we don't, blame us.
    And yet the US went into a recession not too long ago because of why? Politicians helping out their buddies who helped them get elected. The negative aspects of legislation often don't present themselves until years have gone by, when things are allowed to build up. In the mean time both sides are gaining while the third loses. And when it all collapses they do their best to shift the blame. Be the blame gets shifted to an opposing party or some patsy.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yeah, I know that is how you approach it. But the fact, and it is a fact, is that leaders answer to everyone. Business, worker, retired folks, poor folks, rich folks, and so on. It does no one any good to be fiscally irresponsibile. And we can all reward or kick out anyone who doesn't behave in the best interests of all. If we don't, blame us.
    Uh-huh. Right.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Except that is not the way it works in the real world. Union thugs make deals with democrat politicians. The politician gets elected with the help of union "volunteers". The union gets big pay and/or benefit increases. The politicians get kickbacks called donations to their campaigns. The cycle repeats until we become Greece.
    But if indeed that kind of action takes place it's just as likely to happen on the business side as well - and this ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet the US went into a recession not too long ago because of why? Politicians helping out their buddies who helped them get elected. The negative aspects of legislation often don't present themselves until years have gone by, when things are allowed to build up. In the mean time both sides are gaining while the third loses. And when it all collapses they do their best to shift the blame. Be the blame gets shifted to an opposing party or some patsy.
    ... is sometimes the result. Unions didn't put us in this hellhole.

    I have yet to see any good reason why unions should be treated differently than corporations when it comes to political power. Limiting one while giving the other even more free reign (corporate free speech, really?) does not keep the system balanced.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    ... is sometimes the result. Unions didn't put us in this hellhole.

    I have yet to see any good reason why unions should be treated differently than corporations when it comes to political power. Limiting one while giving the other even more free reign (corporate free speech, really?) does not keep the system balanced.
    I think you missed my point. My point is that public unions can hold more sway over politicians than normal joe blow down the street.

    But I do agree with you about corporations. They have just as much power as does a public union. As such I believe that they need to be brought down a peg or two also. The solution to get rid of public unions is simple, just don't allow them. The solution for corporations however...not so simple.

    Note that I didn't say that it would be easy for either one......
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I think you missed my point. My point is that public unions can hold more sway over politicians than normal joe blow down the street.

    But I do agree with you about corporations. They have just as much power as does a public union. As such I believe that they need to be brought down a peg or two also. The solution to get rid of public unions is simple, just don't allow them. The solution for corporations however...not so simple.

    Note that I didn't say that it would be easy for either one......
    The solution in both cases is bog-obvious: don't allow them to make political contributions to campaigns or PACs.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    But if indeed that kind of action takes place it's just as likely to happen on the business side as well - and this ...

    ... is sometimes the result. Unions didn't put us in this hellhole.

    I have yet to see any good reason why unions should be treated differently than corporations when it comes to political power. Limiting one while giving the other even more free reign (corporate free speech, really?) does not keep the system balanced.
    There are two kinds of unions. One is parasitic and feeds on private companies. If it devours its host company the parasite dies. The union problem is immediately solved. The other is like a ravening lion. It feeds on taxpayers. It had no real boundaries as the government can always use more force to take real property away from taxpayers. Once their greed destroys the tax base, as people vote with their feet and move from the public-sector-union ravaged counties and cities, then and only then are the public sector unions in danger.

    Of course the socialists like it. Unionization is one way to keep the masses of unwashed in their places so their betters, the union bosses and democratic party leaders, can live as royalty.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The solution in both cases is bog-obvious: don't allow them to make political contributions to campaigns or PACs.
    It is even simpler. Allow everybody to. We have this new-fangled thang called the Innernet. With it anyone can look up anythang. Let's just make it a requirement that there be full disclosure of who is buying whom.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure what you didn't understand. What happens is they go insolvent. No one wants that, but that is what happens. It happens with business without unions as well. And even though I have entertained this diversion from my point, the fact is things like this happen for all kinds of reasons regardless of unions or no unions.
    You either clearly do not know what happens, or you are not going to answer it because you know that they are then pushed off on the taxpayer through the Federal pension guarantee program.

    Welcome to PBGC

    The questions I ask are: 1) what makes union or state employees not deserving of pensions? And 2) Why do you and others here only focus on one half of the equation? Employers, state, federal, or private all sit at the table and negotiate. They are part of the equation and this is true whether the programs go insolvent or not. You do see this, right?
    1) What makes them special? Most people who work in this country contribute to a 401K for their retirement, along with employer contribution match if you're lucky.

    2) Unions destroy job opportunities. Tell me, If I want to work for a company that has union employment, then why must I join their union?

    j-mac
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You either clearly do not know what happens, or you are not going to answer it because you know that they are then pushed off on the taxpayer through the Federal pension guarantee program.

    Welcome to PBGC



    1) What makes them special? Most people who work in this country contribute to a 401K for their retirement,
    Right there i think that is incorrect. I think most people use their 401 ks as a hedge against their unemployment. Basically they spend that money when they are unemployed.

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