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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    BTW, are you suggesting that because someone works for the tax payer, they are not entitled to a decent benefit package? I don't mean just this person, who suggests you may get your money's worth in return, but those who retire after years of service?
    Many people work their whole lives, giving years of service, and do not get to then sit back on the tax payers dime. One that tax payers never voted for or approved.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Many people work their whole lives, giving years of service, and do not get to then sit back on the tax payers dime. One that tax payers never voted for or approved.
    State and federal pensions are definitely out of step with the private sector, but in large part that's a result of the private sector being a lot less generous than it used to be. I do think that government pensions need to be scaled back, however. Especially the practice where employees can work extra hours in their last few years and then lock in that higher salary for time immemorial.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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  3. #1123
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not quite there Tex...See, when these large, generous pensions go insolvent then their cost gets passed on to me as a taxpayer...So hurry up and get back in the workforce, because I can't, nor do I want to subsidize your retirement.

    j-mac
    Uh, wrong: My pension fund is a private one between private employer and representing labor union . . . So, no, you don't pay for anything. What you're alluding to are municple pension funds; and they are nowhere near insolvent. There is a phony projection going around that although contributions are down, at the former rates with increased hiring and less tax revenue: the no - taxes right-wing remember (this is how you set your own traps), a projection of loss has been made through alchemy. If rates increase and employment decreases, then the fund amount will last a lot longer than increasing employment and decreasing funding. The right is trying to decrease funding simply because company retirement plans are nowhere near as good as union plans; 401Ks belong to the subscriber who must market their plan to perspective employers in the hope of getting a good matching 401K that they can roll into, but employers, as usual, are on the cheap about it. Union plans on the other hand are an umbrealla plan that covers an entire jurisdiction; in my case, both the western and southwestern conference of Teamsters, that stay with you from company to company until you decide you want to "go out" as well call it, or freeze your pension; drawing at 62, and work in another profession . . . The right-wing can't touch this kind of security and they're so envious of it that they have mounted a campaign against it. Why? becasue they want the intrest that floats in these 401s and like funds, and Wall Street wants the gambling capital.

    So, like everything else in this world a union worker (Teamsters for instance) have to be very careful about where one works: the highest pension contributions are the best places to work: Teamsters pay into our plans and companies match. (ou can't borrow against it, you can't cash it in: it's held in trust until you are qualifed to retire and draw, and takes some years of preparation as well.

    So, I'm going to suggest that you put some more thought into your opinions here.
    Last edited by jet57; 04-11-12 at 05:45 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I'm trying to break the monopoly of care doctors have successfully lobbied. There is no reason why nurse practitioners shouldn't be allowed to preform these actions, but in a number of states they aren't allowed to. There's no reason why specialization, which reduces cost, can't be the norm script that doctors have prevented it through controlling the education system and licensing regimens.



    Don't blame the union blame the failure it management to negotiate properly.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
    (chuckle) unions and companies do negotiate properly. Companies don't have to worry about finding attractive plans and teh trusts are managed jointly, so . . .

    And BTw let's try and not get off track: I was retirees in light of health care.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, I've done that in 401K's for about 25 yrs now...I have a decent nest egg, but nothing able to retire me at 50, which for me would be next year. Tell the truth, the generous pension helps that scenario.

    j-mac
    Right. In the Teamsters union it's not percentages but actual money. Barns build their contribution rates out of their own pocket, and it does not take long to build up to $7 or $9 an hour which matched, and after number of years, it's not a nest egg, but an anuity that is paid for life . . . So many guys in my age group; who built it up anyway, chose early retirement, seek work elsewhere adn your retirement becomes a real asset!

    It's fool proof plan. The only trouble that ever comes from it is when campaigns like hte lying by the right going on now, and the union busting: think Scott Walker, that goes on strictly for the purposes of sabotaging someone else's retirement plan: it's preditory practice.
    Last edited by jet57; 04-11-12 at 05:56 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Many people work their whole lives, giving years of service, and do not get to then sit back on the tax payers dime. One that tax payers never voted for or approved.
    So, if the tax payer pays the salary, you're not allowed to have a retirement plan? And don't tax payers vote for those who agree to the terms of employment? Again, I think you have the situation poorly diagnosed. You're forgetting half of the equation. Government employees, state or federal, are first and foremost employees. As such. they get salaries and retirement packages.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Government employees, state or federal, are first and foremost employees. As such. they get salaries and retirement packages.
    Most often excessive ones. Paid out of taxpayer money, like I said, without taxpayer approval for the excessiveness.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Most often excessive ones. Paid out of taxpayer money, like I said, without taxpayer approval for the excessiveness.
    That's a judgment call. The point is, it was negotiated and agree to by the government. Your disappointment should be directed at your representative in those negotiations, not the employee. These people work, do their job, as much as anyone else. They are no more not entitled to what they negotiated than anyone else.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your disappointment should be directed at your representative in those negotiations, not the employee.
    When was the last time government actually worked for the people, instead of special interests?

    That would be both sides, combined.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    When was the last time government actually worked for the people, instead of special interests?

    That would be both sides, combined.
    Irrelevant, as people may disagree on the answer. The point is, people hold the power to overthrow the government every election cycle. Attacking workers isn't a productive method. You don't like how those who represent you did their job, exercise your power.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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