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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Nowhere do I sugest that health care has been in a free market; I said, "the unencumbered market never works". The unecumbered health care market (meaning: left to its own devices) has whittled down choice to only seven parent companies: less choices, fixed pricing and prices that prevent the average person from affording good polices. And all that's quite true. I suggest that you do some research into monopolies and then reply.
    Sigh. Students.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Are you saying that the death panels will not exist? Or is your argument that they are not yet needed so they won't exist until the monster known as Obamacare is fully implemented? How did government health care work for the Soviet Union? That is the example we should look to as we embrace the communistic model. Under Communism ones politics and status drove the quality of one's health care. Will it be any different here?

    Why do you believe it is nonsense? It is happening before our eyes.
    My government insurance (disability) has worked pretty well for me. As a matter of fact I'm now looking forward to working again via a program for the disabled.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    [QUOTE=MoSurveyor;1060375245]I don't know why hospitals would be prevented from giving out bonuses. Then again, I don't know why we have so few new doctors each year, either - and apparently a large number of residency positions are funded through Medicare. So what happens if government pulls out of healthcare completely? Who picks up the bill for all those residency positions that Medicare is paying now? The AMA is screaming we need more doctors, which means more residents, but if we stop paying for the residents then where are we?[quote]
    WARNING! Socialist, or Statist, at work.

    Of course, no one has an answer to the "Idiosyncrasies of payment" problem. Sure you can shop around for some things but we're still stuck paying for the uninsured if they have an accident or something. Or we possibly leave them to die while they wait for care at a government facility. You can't have it both ways. To avoid an untimely death someone has to pay and if it's not the patient then it has to be US.
    WARNING! Socialist, or Statist, at work.

    Ed:
    I did forget to add in the last few posts - I do NOT believe in a Cadillac in every driveway. But I do still think we need basic UHC, what most of us have to deal with year to year, not the $800k heart transplant.
    WARNING! Socialist, or Statist, at work. And he doesn't even realize it.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    LOL. Individual payer is you paying for what you want to buy while I pay for what I want to buy. It is the central tenet of freedom. :-)
    so is "promoting the general welfare". so I guess that means you pay for what others want too. Healthcare is a central tenet of freedom too, it's right in the preamble.. If you like to pay more for less because you feel better about it, you got your wish. Remember though along with the poor you will be paying for young people who could afford insurance but choose that flat screen instead. Plus that 15 to 30% kickback to the insurer. It adds up. Are you sure you can afford it?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 04-10-12 at 12:06 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Yes. If you do not take care of your needs why should I be forced to? If the gene pool is shallow on the end you occupy why should I be forced to take care of you? What gives you a greater moral claim on the things I create than I have?

    Or do you believe that you are not just a common thief as long as you get the government to take from me by force that which you are unable or unwilling to try to take?
    You should look at my posts more closely. Unlike many I'm very flexable about this situation. If you don't want to buy health insurance then don't. But at the same time, don't expect to steal MY health dollars that I've been paying for years because you have an accident or get sick and now need help from a system you didn't help to build. It's as simple as that. Some people want the choice to not invest in the system then expect it to literally save their ass when they need it. Screw that!

    If you want out, you're more than welcome to leave - and don't come back because I don't want to hear you whining and crying when you're dying of injuries, cancer, or heart disease.
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    WARNING! Socialist, or Statist, at work. And he doesn't even realize it.
    WARNING: Creationist!
    Scientific and historic evidence should be checked at the door when attempting to engage in conversation!
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    states require car insurance.
    No one has to drive a car, it's a privilege.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    lenders require flood insurance, including for federally-backed mortgages.
    No one has to own a home, they can rent.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    But nearly everyone will use healthcare sooner or later.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. Health centers provide

    1. checkups when you're well
    2. treatment when you're sick
    3. complete care when you're pregnant
    4. immunizations and checkups for your children
    5. dental care and prescription drugs for your family
    6. mental health and substance abuse care if you need it

    Health centers are in most cities and many rural areas. Type in your address and click the 'Find Health Centers' button to find health centers near you.

    HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page
    There are many State and County programs you can find on line as well.

    Now when you take away all the people with access to these Health Care programs, how many actually have no access.

    The clinics aren't as convenient, you may have to wait in line. But, Health Care is out there for those without insurance. I am currently without health insurance and use my counties health care system for only $10 more than my old insurance co-pay.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    There are piratical reforms that would reduce the cost of entry and this the choosy of health care without endangering peoples' lives and ive already listed some. Expanding the role of nurse practitioners, midwifery, and technical care (procedures that don't require full doctor training such as ear eye and throat doctors and general check UPS such as throat swabing) would do wonders to reduce cost. Then there is allowing doctors trained overseas to practice in the us with minimal barrier of entry (a test). Then we can expand the schools qualified to train doctors (is artificially restrained by the AMA). There's more but that would help immensely

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes
    I agree with some of what you're saying, however
    and technical care (procedures that don't require full doctor training such as ear eye and throat doctors and general check UPS such as throat swabing) would do wonders to reduce cost.
    Health exams as such do go on at colleges, but should not be the practice of everyday health. There are many nurse pratisioners etc that can set bones, deliver babies and things like that who have been practicing for a number of years and are a good choice for those who desire a less formal participation, but to lower the standards by which medicine operates is disaster waiting to happen.

    You're trying to lower the participation of federal and state government and we have seen over and over again that less regulation only increses hardship for others.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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