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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The health care market has virtually never been a free market. I suggest you do some research
    I've done quite a bit. Most medicine used to be done at home. Quite cheap then, unless you really needed something, and then the odds were less that good that you could find it, find actual medicine, or be able to pay for it when you found it. As technology increased, the cost increased. As the cost increased, insurance became more prevelent. We will never see a time when cost will be so low as to be affordable for everyone. And that is true even without government or third party payers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I give you some expert opinion...
    David Hogberg, in your first source, is not an expert at anything: he's a right-wing blogger and columnist. He is "selling an idea"; that of a free market for health care. He is not credibly sourcing anything he says, nor does he establish that he has any experience in the matter.

    What he offers here is unsolicited opinion which carries no greater value than anything that you or I might offer as opinion.

    And another opinion in Forbes:




    j-mac
    Again, this artcle offeres nothing to refute what the nobel prize winning author of the paper dilivered as porblems with a free market sytem. Again, this article seeks only to short circut the author of fact rather adding anything of fact with which to refute Arrow's paper, and again, this second source artcle is only selling a concept rather than factually reporting on the subject of discussion.

    With repsect to free markets, I have said; that they don't work perse': our current economic situation shouts that out very clearly. I agree with both Ken Arrow and Paul Krugman: people's health; like people's medicine has a very direct and instantly life altering effect or affect and should be very closley scrutinized: we've already seen examples of iliterate and greedy doctors (Michael Jackson and midicare fraud) and we've already seen what happens with crooked insurance companies like AIG.

    There is nothing that a free market has done that will guarantee in any way the safety of the medical profession and it's realtionship of safety with its base: the patient. A free market system is based soley on a concept known as social darwinism; a concept that I have advocated against for some years now, and I'm glad that president Obama has finally attached that phrase to Republican government; because that's what it is. Social darwinism has no place in the care and feeding of the elderly, injured or sick citizens of this society, because of those relations to absolute trust and the guarantee of care.

    You guys are advocating something with a design toward a profit margin rather than a service, and that's the thinking that gets US into trouble every time.
    Last edited by jet57; 04-08-12 at 08:25 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've done quite a bit. Most medicine used to be done at home. Quite cheap then, unless you really needed something, and then the odds were less that good that you could find it, find actual medicine, or be able to pay for it when you found it. As technology increased, the cost increased. As the cost increased, insurance became more prevelent. We will never see a time when cost will be so low as to be affordable for everyone. And that is true even without government or third party payers.
    True but that's not what I was taking about see below.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, wrong.
    are you only looking at the insurance market? Even if you are HMOs and what type of plans are offered are a direct result of government intervention. So are what companies can sell insurance in the various state market. Hell even the number of doctors allowed to practice is controlled by the state to some extent

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    But it is interesting that liberals have higher household income, and yet still favor higher taxes on the wealthy.
    That they support that which harms themselves is no surprise.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    True but that's not what I was taking about see below.



    are you only looking at the insurance market? Even if you are HMOs and what type of plans are offered are a direct result of government intervention. So are what companies can sell insurance in the various state market. Hell even the number of doctors allowed to practice is controlled by the state to some extent

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes
    You must be a driver . . .

    Practicing doctors are controlled the way liquor lisences and gun sellers are controlled. So, I don't see your problem.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    That they support that which harms themselves is no surprise.
    That's pretty funny, coming from a Republican. Middle class Republicans are kind of like Jews for Jesus.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You must be a driver . . .

    Practicing doctors are controlled the way liquor lisences and gun sellers are controlled. So, I don't see your problem.
    The entire process is controlled by the AMA, from deciding which schools qualify for accreditation, were a person can conduct clinicals, how long they last, and what a doctor or non doctor can/can't do. The problem is not requiring a license, but what's required to even apply for that license and barring non doctors from doing "doctors" work. Why can't there be a, eye throat and ear doctor that doesn't have to go through 8+ years of schooling? Why are doctors the only ones allowed to do test for strept, set bones etc?


    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's pretty funny, coming from a Republican. Middle class Republicans are kind of like Jews for Jesus.
    I suppose it would be if it came from a republican. But it didn't.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I suppose it would be if it came from a republican. But it didn't.
    Right, you're an independent.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    True but that's not what I was taking about see below.



    are you only looking at the insurance market? Even if you are HMOs and what type of plans are offered are a direct result of government intervention. So are what companies can sell insurance in the various state market. Hell even the number of doctors allowed to practice is controlled by the state to some extent

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes

    This post was made from my phone.please excuse spelling mistakes
    All these things came about for a reason, and too often we forget the history that led to it. Government didn't jump up and just decide to do things for no reason. People, group like the AMA, and events all worked together to lead us in this direction.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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