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Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #1041
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, big talker...Then prove to us your charity. Other than that you are talking out of something other than your mouth.
    Should I report you now or wait for later? I don't know of any way to do that without disclosing personal information, which you have no right to ask for.

    But, hey, I don't hide what I did for a living - my username says it all. You're so smart you figure it out.


    Ed:
    Average wages are readily available, too. You figure out how that translates into "exempt" or eat your own crap. I don't hide what I am.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-08-12 at 10:49 AM.
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  2. #1042
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Should I report you now or wait for later?
    You do what you feel you have to. But if you don't want tough talk, then don't bring it.

    I don't know of any way to do that without disclosing personal information, which you have no right to ask for.
    So, IOW, You are on an anonymous message board, make claims that there is no way to verify, and just expect that everyone takes your word for it...Yeah, ok man....What TF ever!

    But, hey, I don't hide what I did for a living - my username says it all. You're so smart you figure it out.

    Ok, so you are a Surveyor....So what? Is there some stat in society showing surveyors to be more charitable then everyone else? Because, I can assure you that there has been stats that show liberals/progressives to be let's say less than charitable in terms of percentage of wealth made when compared to say Conservatives....

    So, you can proceed to talk nonsense if you wish, but I would say that it would only lead to your continuing to look foolish, so as a friend, I would advise that you just stick to the case, and not delve into what you think makes you look superior, when in reality, it is little more than weak bluster.


    j-mac
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Jmac: are you really surprised?

    Of course they have no better place to turn than ad hominem.

    It's not as if they ACTUALLY give more, and when this disparity is demonstrated to them, they have nowhere to go.

    ...-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household... Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

    -- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.


    -- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average...

    People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition...


    While conservatives tend to regard giving as a personal rather than governmental responsibility, some liberals consider private charity a retrograde phenomenon -- a poor palliative for an inadequate welfare state, and a distraction from achieving adequacy by force, by increasing taxes. Ralph Nader, running for president in 2000, said: "A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity." Brooks, however, warns: "If support for a policy that does not exist ... substitutes for private charity, the needy are left worse off than before. It is one of the bitterest ironies of liberal politics today that political opinions are apparently taking the place of help for others."


    In 2000, brows were furrowed in perplexity because Vice President Al Gore's charitable contributions, as a percentage of his income, were below the national average: He gave 0.2 percent of his family income, one-seventh of the average for donating households. But Gore "gave at the office." By using public office to give other peoples' money to government programs, he was being charitable, as liberals increasingly, and conveniently, understand that word.


    Last edited by cpwill; 04-08-12 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #1044
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You do what you feel you have to. But if you don't want tough talk, then don't bring it.

    So, IOW, You are on an anonymous message board, make claims that there is no way to verify, and just expect that everyone takes your word for it...Yeah, ok man....What TF ever!

    Ok, so you are a Surveyor....So what? Is there some stat in society showing surveyors to be more charitable then everyone else? Because, I can assure you that there has been stats that show liberals/progressives to be let's say less than charitable in terms of percentage of wealth made when compared to say Conservatives....

    So, you can proceed to talk nonsense if you wish, but I would say that it would only lead to your continuing to look foolish, so as a friend, I would advise that you just stick to the case, and not delve into what you think makes you look superior, when in reality, it is little more than weak bluster.
    You're the one that specifically accused me of something, not the other way around. The proof is on YOU, not me. It's YOU who talked about me being "exempt". What were you talking about if it wasn't some level of income that you thought would preclude me from having to pay just like everyone else? You seemed to imply I was too poor to be effected by the decision I was defending. I did as much as I could without divulging private information to show that I wasn't. Do you even know what Sch.A is - without using Google? I've certainly filled out enough of them to know.

    All I've said is that IF we're not going to UHC than we should move back to the way it was instead of this halfway, namby-pamby position we're in now. If you want to NOT buy insurance than that's your choice. If you get in an accident then you should be taken to a government run hospital to wait your turn in line, which may mean dying because they can't get to you right away. That's the world I grew up in, where people sometimes died outside the ER waiting for a doctor, and I don't want to go back to that. But I think it's better than where we are now, stick halfway in between.

    It's too bad you can't accept the hard facts of life. We can't stay where we are. We either need to turn back the clock to when hospitals weren't required to treat just anybody (except local government hospitals) or we need to move forward. Standing here is killing us. You talk all high and mighty about Freedom and Liberty then let's have it - let's move back to 1979. What's the ****ing problem??? Afraid it'll be YOUR ass sitting outside the County ER? Life's tough, ain't it?



    As for the car, until the last couple of posts I was using it as metaphor - which someone else started using, BTW. I'm sure none of us using it as a metaphor had any idea someone else would come along and take it at face value. It's sad some people don't understand the concept of "analogy". Creationists are so dense.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-08-12 at 11:50 AM. Reason: sp
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Jmac: are you really surprised?

    Of course they have no better place to turn than ad hominem.

    It's not as if they ACTUALLY give more, and when this disparity is demonstrated to them, they have nowhere to go.
    Another genius who doesn't understand "metaphor" or "analogy"? LOL!

    BTW - In case you missed the obvious, I live in a Red State. So???
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Jmac: are you really surprised?

    Of course they have no better place to turn than ad hominem.
    That's a hillarious response to j-mac's pure ad hominem attack on MoSurveyor.

    Re: charity, from the article: "The single biggest predictor of someone's altruism, Willett says, is religion. It increasingly correlates with conservative political affiliations...."

    But it is interesting that liberals have higher household income, and yet still favor higher taxes on the wealthy.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  7. #1047
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's a hillarious response to j-mac's pure ad hominem attack on MoSurveyor.

    Re: charity, from the article: "The single biggest predictor of someone's altruism, Willett says, is religion. It increasingly correlates with conservative political affiliations...."
    yup. Conservatives tend increasingly to hew to a belief system that demands that they help the vulnerable. Liberals continue to hew to a belief system that allows them to merely force others to help the vulnerable.

    It's only charity if its' your money.

    But it is interesting that liberals have higher household income, and yet still favor higher taxes on the wealthy.
    well they tend to live in high state-income-tax states, which are tax-deductible. get rid of the State Tax Deduction.

  8. #1048
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You're the one that specifically accused me of something, not the other way around. The proof is on YOU, not me. It's YOU who talked about me being "exempt". What were you talking about if it wasn't some level of income that you thought would preclude me from having to pay just like everyone else? You seemed to imply I was too poor to be effected by the decision I was defending. I did as much as I could without divulging private information to show that I wasn't. Do you even know what Sch.A is - without using Google? I've certainly filled out enough of them to know.

    Bravo, you itemize your deductions....As do I. So? That also shows me that you are maximizing the available income you can keep for yourself, good for you. However, it is striking that you should be in the realm of speaking of the "wealthy" paying more, as you yourself minimize the amount you pay in taxation. The analogy of "the car" was originally brought up by a lib on this topic, and has proven to be a poor one. But, the question that does make sense is this: Should you, or I as a tax payer, be responsible for others lifestyle choices in terms of health? Or, better yet, What claim to the fruits of MY labor, do others have the "right" to take?

    All I've said is that IF we're not going to UHC than we should move back to the way it was instead of this halfway, namby-pamby position we're in now. If you want to NOT buy insurance than that's your choice. If you get in an accident then you should be taken to a government run hospital to wait your turn in line, which may mean dying because they can't get to you right away. That's the world I grew up in, where people sometimes died outside the ER waiting for a doctor, and I don't want to go back to that. But I think it's better than where we are now, stick halfway in between.
    That is interesting Mo....As I have said before, Health insurance anymore, is not insurance, but rather, subsidy. If you want to control cost, and improve quality, then move closer, IMO, to HSA's, with catastrophic policies.

    It's too bad you can't accept the hard facts of life. We can't stay where we are. We either need to turn back the clock to when hospitals weren't required to treat just anybody (except local government hospitals) or we need to move forward. Standing here is killing us. You talk all high and mighty about Freedom and Liberty then let's have it - let's move back to 1979. What's the ****ing problem??? Afraid it'll be YOUR ass sitting outside the County ER? Life's tough, ain't it?
    Why give the false choice? Truth is that there are a myriad of things that we could do other than UHC that would work better, and not stifle innovation.

    As for the car, until the last couple of posts I was using it as metaphor - which someone else started using, BTW. I'm sure none of us using it as a metaphor had any idea someone else would come along and take it at face value. It's sad some people don't understand the concept of "analogy". Creationists are so dense.
    If I am to approach you without assumptive conclusions, then wouldn't it be fair to say you should do as you preach?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #1049
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    And that is one thing Obama is good at.
    I dare you to show a party that doesn't use it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #1050
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    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I dare you to show a party that doesn't use it.

    Ah, so it is acceptable as long as the other guy does it too...I see. :

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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