Page 101 of 122 FirstFirst ... 519199100101102103111 ... LastLast
Results 1,001 to 1,010 of 1219

Thread: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

  1. #1001
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    This is unfair. You have driven me to two likes just this evening. How shall I continue to dislike you in the face of all this reasonable argumentation?
    Well you could always tell yourself that even a clock is right twice a day.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  2. #1002
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Reimbursement by the government is in a way "insurance". The hospital get paid right? Through "reimbursement"? So why is it that if they are getting paid, whether its through the government, the insurance company, or the individual, that all of a sudden its "driving the price of healthcare up" so bad that they need the government to set up this monstrosity of a bill? If they're getting paid then how is it that they can claim that they are not getting paid? Easy of course...just blame it on the individuals that don't pay and ignore that they do get paid by the government. Of course this is also not counting the fact that hospitals/collection agencies sue the crap out of those that don't pay and then they lose everything in order for it to get paid. So what? Are they getting twice the money now? The government "reimbursement" AND the law suit?

    And yes, government reimbursement by the government is a form of government benefit. For the simple fact that without that reimbursement then the hospital wouldn't get paid at all unless of course they sued the person oweing them.

    The government buying an F-22 does not equal reimbursing a hospital. Horrible analogy there Dan.
    First, the amount of unpaid-for health care (which is actually covered by those of us who pay for insurance) is hardly inconsequential. I believe someone quoted a figure of $135 billion a year? In fact, that's almost equal to half of the entire U.S. Medicaid budget.

    Second, the problem isn't that the uninsured are driving up the cost of health care. The problem is that they are driving up the cost of health INSURANCE for those of us who are responsible and provide for our own health care needs. Essentially, Republicans are arguing for the right of freeloaders to shirk their responsibility and foist off their expenses on those who do take personal responsibility for their own health care needs.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  3. #1003
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Reimbursement by the government is in a way "insurance". The hospital get paid right? Through "reimbursement"? So why is it that if they are getting paid, whether its through the government, the insurance company, or the individual, that all of a sudden its "driving the price of healthcare up" so bad that they need the government to set up this monstrosity of a bill? If they're getting paid then how is it that they can claim that they are not getting paid? Easy of course...just blame it on the individuals that don't pay and ignore that they do get paid by the government. Of course this is also not counting the fact that hospitals/collection agencies sue the crap out of those that don't pay and then they lose everything in order for it to get paid. So what? Are they getting twice the money now? The government "reimbursement" AND the law suit?

    And yes, government reimbursement by the government is a form of government benefit. For the simple fact that without that reimbursement then the hospital wouldn't get paid at all unless of course they sued the person oweing them.
    See, I knew this was going to cause confusion. You know what? If the government DID reimburse hospitals for deadbeats without insurance then as far as I'm concerned there wouldn't be as much of an issue. Why don't you make that happen and solve half our problem???

    The government classifies a hospital as "government supported" if the hospital gets any money at all from Uncle Sam. This means if the hospital treats Medicare/Medicaid patients then the hospital is "government supported". It does NOT mean that the government pays for the low-life deadbeat that can afford insurance but won't buy it, then gets sick or injured and can't pay their bill.

    Like any good business the hospital passes that loss on to it's other customers, so the other people in the system end up paying for the deadbeat asshat who was betting - with MY money - that he wouldn't get sick or hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The government buying an F-22 does not equal reimbursing a hospital. Horrible analogy there Dan.
    Why?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-06-12 at 01:41 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #1004
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    First, the amount of unpaid-for health care (which is actually covered by those of us who pay for insurance) is hardly inconsequential. I believe someone quoted a figure of $135 billion a year? In fact, that's almost equal to half of the entire U.S. Medicaid budget.

    Second, the problem isn't that the uninsured are driving up the cost of health care. The problem is that they are driving up the cost of health INSURANCE for those of us who are responsible and provide for our own health care needs. Essentially, Republicans are arguing for the right of freeloaders to shirk their responsibility and foist off their expenses on those who do take personal responsibility for their own health care needs.
    Further I would like to add how does one expect a sick person to take care of themeselves? Hello they are sick! They are not going to pay an insurance premium much less have a job.

  5. #1005
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Further I would like to add how does one expect a sick person to take care of themeselves? Hello they are sick! They are not going to pay an insurance premium much less have a job.
    And further to that, ER care is just that -- emergency care. If an uninsured person comes in suffering from nausea and vomiting due to metastatic breast cancer, they will give her something for the nausea and vomiting, but they aren't going to admit her and pay for surgery, radiation and chemo.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  6. #1006
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    First, the amount of unpaid-for health care (which is actually covered by those of us who pay for insurance) is hardly inconsequential. I believe someone quoted a figure of $135 billion a year? In fact, that's almost equal to half of the entire U.S. Medicaid budget.
    Which as I recall was pointed out it also included things like illegal immigrants...something which this bill does not address.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Second, the problem isn't that the uninsured are driving up the cost of health care. The problem is that they are driving up the cost of health INSURANCE for those of us who are responsible and provide for our own health care needs. Essentially, Republicans are arguing for the right of freeloaders to shirk their responsibility and foist off their expenses on those who do take personal responsibility for their own health care needs.
    Funny, I could have sworn that those defending this bill were basically saying that its basically the same thing? That we can no longer afford to seperate HC insurance from that of Health care because they were "so intertwined"?

    But hey if you want to go that route thats fine. How are they driving up your health insurance costs? Since you are seperating healthcare insurance from that of actual healthcare then you cannot possibly say that them not participating is driving up your costs for the simple fact that the uninsured have absolutely nothing to do with health insurance.

    Also, please drop the whole "those of us who are responsible" BS. Believe it or not it is those high health insurance costs that often prevent people from getting health insurance. Believe it or not no one actually says "Well, I feel like i'm healthy enough that I don't need health insurance so lets put it off!". They actually say "Well, I've got this bill and this bill and this bill and this bill to pay and unfortenately I barely make enough to cover those expenses so I guess I'm just going to have to put off getting health insurance until I am more financially set and can afford it". And then there are those that just downright cannot afford no matter how hard they try. This whole talk of "i'm more responsible than X class of people" makes me want to puke. Pure elitest crap.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #1007
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Which as I recall was pointed out it also included things like illegal immigrants...something which this bill does not address.
    Regardless, it is still tens of billions of dollars a year.

    Funny, I could have sworn that those defending this bill were basically saying that its basically the same thing? That we can no longer afford to seperate HC insurance from that of Health care because they were "so intertwined"?
    You're mixing apples and oranges. The mandate addresses a problem with health insurance costs. Other measures that would help those who can't afford insurance to obtain it address health care itself.

    But hey if you want to go that route thats fine. How are they driving up your health insurance costs? Since you are seperating healthcare insurance from that of actual healthcare then you cannot possibly say that them not participating is driving up your costs for the simple fact that the uninsured have absolutely nothing to do with health insurance.
    That is simply illogical. Again -- there is more than one aspect to this thing. With respect to costs, health insurance premiums are based on probabilities. If you have a bunch of younger, healthier people who decide to shoot the dice and hope they don't sick or injured, it increases the risk level in the pool of people who do buy insurance. The higher the risk level, the higher the cost. Now, if you prevent insurance companies from rejecting folks on the basis of preexisting condition, and you have no mechanism to incent people to buy insurance, then it follows that you will have a lot of people who won't buy insurance until they actually need it. Of course that's more like theft than insurance. Imagine what would happen if you weren't required to buy auto insurance, but you could go sign up for a policy AFTER you've wrecked your car.

    So the insurers set prices based upon the risk pool, but they also have to estimate their costs. Ucompensated care also drives up costs, which in turn drives up premiums. Here's how it works: the hospital knows that it will be on the hook for X amount of ER care per year because they are not allowed to deny treatment to people who can't pay. So what does the hospital do? It increases it's prices across the board in order to make up for the cost of the uncompensated care. Insurance companies pay those inflated prices and pass the costs on to their insureds.

    Also, please drop the whole "those of us who are responsible" BS. Believe it or not it is those high health insurance costs that often prevent people from getting health insurance.
    Yes, and that's why AHCA only requires people who can afford health insurance to buy health insurance. It provides subsidies for those who can't afford it so they can afford it.

    Believe it or not no one actually says "Well, I feel like i'm healthy enough that I don't need health insurance so lets put it off!". They actually say "Well, I've got this bill and this bill and this bill and this bill to pay and unfortenately I barely make enough to cover those expenses so I guess I'm just going to have to put off getting health insurance until I am more financially set and can afford it". And then there are those that just downright cannot afford no matter how hard they try. This whole talk of "i'm more responsible than X class of people" makes me want to puke. Pure elitest crap.
    Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who could afford insurance but who choose not to buy it because they'd rather drive a fancy truck or live in a fancy apartment. Again, AHCA helps those who legitimately can't afford insurance to buy insurance.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #1008
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Only comparable if HC is kicked back to the states where it belongs.


    j-mac
    I wish more of those who oppose current reform made that type os argument in a coherent way. I would be inclined to allow states to address it. My only concern is that largely, with all the years and opportunities the states have had, it largely has not been handled. I think in a reasonable argument a case for it being a national problem and not just a state problem can be made. A case can be made both ways. But what I really doubt is that either side will stop silliness long enough to have a productive, reasoned and civil discussion about this.

    Let the leftist, communist, facist, socialist, granny killing, greedy, hateful discourse that has become our way begin!!!!

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #1009
    Cynical Optimist
    jambalaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Last Seen
    11-28-12 @ 05:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The reason that I put "" is because you could point to any of them and my statement would be true.
    We are not talking about any country in this thread. We are talking about the U.S. Supreme Court and their decision so the inference seems apparent and wrong.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  10. #1010
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,725

    Re: Supreme Court health care arguments under way

    I found this pretty funny. LOL.

    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •