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Thread: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Niether am I

    The article does not state who started the struggle, just that Zimmerman was on the losing end of it

    That is the $64,000 question. Nobody seemed to witness that part of the confrontation.
    What is know that it was Zimmerman who did the initial chasing of Martin.

    Bigger question is if Zimmerman already had his gun in his hand when he confronted Martin.
    There is the old adage, that has merit to it, is that you charge a gun and run from a knife.

    But once again this all comes back to the police dept who handled this like it was a jaywalking case.

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I would ask the same of you

    produce evidence that Trayvon initiated first contact and assaulted Zimmerman first
    Last look in. I never said he did.

    I only went by the current evidence.

    Are you telling us all that if you are on the ground, being beaten, that you cannot defend yourself ?

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    That is the $64,000 question. Nobody seemed to witness that part of the confrontation.
    What is know that it was Zimmerman who did the initial chasing of Martin.

    Bigger question is if Zimmerman already had his gun in his hand when he confronted Martin.
    There is the old adage, that has merit to it, is that you charge a gun and run from a knife.

    But once again this all comes back to the police dept who handled this like it was a jaywalking case.
    Not quite. If you are standing over someone on the ground, beating and kicking them, and the cops show up, you will be charged with assault. The "he hit me first" argument will remain to be substantiated. You will certainly be charged though.

    Its pretty simple, btw.

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Last look in. I never said he did.

    I only went by the current evidence.

    Are you telling us all that if you are on the ground, being beaten, that you cannot defend yourself ?
    Is it a fight I started

    Does the other person not have the right to defend themself as well

    Or is it only me

    Can I start fights, lose them and then shoot the person i was losing the fight to. If I started it, then by all rights I deserve to get my butt kicked, a broken nose is the least of it. I should not have the right to start a fight, lose it and the shoot the person I lost the fight to


    If Zimmerman started the struggle, he commited murder, he was not acting in self defense, as Trayvon would have been defending himself from the fight (again if Zimmerman took the first physical action) that Zimmerman started.
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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Not quite. If you are standing over someone on the ground, beating and kicking them, and the cops show up, you will be charged with assault. The "he hit me first" argument will remain to be substantiated. You will certainly be charged though.

    Its pretty simple, btw.

    If I tried to rob you with a gun in my hand and you charged me to the ground hitting me and I was able to free my gun hand and shoot you that I should walk?

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    never liked the leather skirts. not ma' thang'.
    the super tight ones are a bit over the top. My college girl friend had a really neat pleated one and she spent 15 years in ballet. But I suspect you got the point. the boy apparently put his hood up in an effort to avoid being seen by this guy stalking him

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    If I tried to rob you with a gun in my hand and you charged me to the ground hitting me and I was able to free my gun hand and shoot you that I should walk?
    Folks. How about we stick with the evidence so far ? All this conjecture is truely the stuff of nonsense.

    Again, if you doubt me, then ask a cop. Or an attorney. If you are, at that moment, beating and kicking someone on the ground, and the cops are called and show up seeing you do exactly that, you will be arrested. The cops, and the attorney, will tell you that once you had defended yourself, ie subdued the imminent danger to yourself, you should have stopped your assault, if you are claiming self defense for why you kicked and punched someone on the ground.

    However, if you are the one on the ground, you can continue to defend yourself. You will not be charged for doing so. That includes deadly force in self defense.

    Learn the law libs.

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the super tight ones are a bit over the top. My college girl friend had a really neat pleated one and she spent 15 years in ballet. But I suspect you got the point. the boy apparently put his hood up in an effort to avoid being seen by this guy stalking him
    I like how you think, Turtle man.


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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the super tight ones are a bit over the top. My college girl friend had a really neat pleated one and she spent 15 years in ballet. But I suspect you got the point. the boy apparently put his hood up in an effort to avoid being seen by this guy stalking him
    Just how does "putting a hood up" make one "unseen" ?

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    Re: Jeb Bush: 'Stand Your Ground' Doesn't Apply in Trayvon Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Folks. How about we stick with the evidence so far ? All this conjecture is truely the stuff of nonsense.

    Again, if you doubt me, then ask a cop. Or an attorney. If you are, at that moment, beating and kicking someone on the ground, and the cops are called and show up seeing you do exactly that, you will be arrested. The cops, and the attorney, will tell you that once you had defended yourself, ie subdued the imminent danger to yourself, you should have stopped your assault, if you are claiming self defense for why you kicked and punched someone on the ground.

    However, if you are the one on the ground, you can continue to defend yourself. You will not be charged for doing so. That includes deadly force in self defense.

    Learn the law libs.

    If Zimmerman was the person that started the fight, does it look like he was subdued, not to me it doesnt. To bad Trayvon did not have a gun to be able to defend himself properly, and truely ensure that Zimmerman was subdued and no longer presented a threat to him
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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