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Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case


Of course it's wrong. If it wasn't wrong, the neighborhood watch program wouldn't urgently warn its members not to do that.

Call the police and report what you've seen.

That's it.

That's the extent of their role.


Neighborhood Watch Manual

REMEMBER:

Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.
- page 22


Why do you think that is what neighborhood watch members are instructed to do?

Why did Zimmerman ignore that; along with ignoring the 911 operator's advice to the same?
Excuse me?
Calling 911 is taking action on an observation - oh no the manual contradicts itself. :)
Can you point out where exactly it says not to keep someone under observation?
Can you also point out where it says keeping someone under observation is taking action on itself? lol

I can't wait.


Zimmerman was part of his neighborhood's NW program. And was a block Captain. He was not the only one.

This particular program was not registered, but there is no requirement for it to be.

The puplication that the quoted statement, came from, has no force behind it.
It is nothing more than a suggestion, or a guideline. It is not a rule or a law that has to be followed.
And obviously, the quoted portion doesn't even apply here.



Because we're Americans mother****er. We ain't gotta do ****. USA! USA! USA!
Really? More hyperbole?
Do you have any thing substantive to add?

If you do, I would really like to hear it.



Zimmerman was in his car ... how was Martin in a position to ask Zimmerman why he was following him?
I have seen no evidence that says Zimmerman was in his truck at that time.
The two two statements in evidence for that moment come from Zimmerman and Trayvon's girlfriend.
Unless you are calling Trayvon's girlfriend a liar along with Zimmerman? Are you?

So what is your point with this irrelevant and false information?
 
Zimmerman was part of his neighborhood's NW program. And was a block Captain. He was not the only one....

you don't get it, do you?

there was NO official neighborhood watch group. HE invented it. HE made himself the "captain". HE was the only member.

this was just part of his long line of bull**** actions, including being rejected by the police force and calling 911 forty times in January, that makes his actions and words soo very suspect.
 
that is NOT known evidence, its an unconfimed and uncorroborated allegation by Zimmerman.
lol
An allegation coming from a witness or one involved, is evidence.
And his statement is consistent with the other evidence, and, according to the Chief:
"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have," Lee said.Fatal shooting of Florida teen turned over to state attorney - CNN.com
They had all eight witness's testimony. Even the woman who believes it was Trayvon yelling for help, who's version is contradicted by others.

And still, "We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have".
 
you don't get it, do you?

there was NO official neighborhood watch group. HE invented it. HE made himself the "captain". HE was the only member.
Wrong. It is obviously you who has been mis-informed and has allowed their self to be swayed by false information.
Don't you understand why I included that he wasn't the only one?
It was to stop mis-informed people from making the claims you just made.
I can back up what I said.



Let me show you how really biased and misinformed your position is.
calling 911 forty times in January
Before we go any further, back this statement up.
 
Wrong. It is obviously you who has been mis-informed and has allowed their self to be swayed by false information.
Don't you understand why I included that he wasn't the only one?
It was to stop mis-informed people from making the claims you just made.
I can back up what I said.



Let me show you how really biased and misinformed your position is.

Before we go any further, back this statement up.

it was in an article on Yahoo News. Ill find it.

meanwhile, back up your claim that he was not the only member of his neighborhood watch team.
 
I don't see where you are getting that from?

I get that from reading your own postings where you seem to dismiss anything that points to Zimmerman being in the wrong here what so ever...

Provided Quotes are not speculation.

No, but they are heresay.

The police report is not speculation.

The original report will be scrutinized thoroughly to determine if it was a proper initial investigation. We will have to wait and see the outcome of that to determine how valid it is.

The quotes from the on scene eye-witness is not speculation.

Eye Witnesses are traditionally unreliable. That is why as compelling as they are pre trial of anything, they are usually not relied on much anymore over forensics and other methods of scientific fact based evidence.

Quotes from the 911 calls are not speculation.

911 calls can sink him as well as provide information of mitigation. We don't know fully yet.

Quotes from Trayvons girlfriend are not speculation.

Still heresay.....All she can provide is what Treyvon said to her over the phone, she wasn't there.

This is the known evidence.
That is what we have.

Well, I want more before I say that a dead youth is justified.

Do we need to go over each and every one again for their establishment?

No, something substantial, and concrete will do. You are talking about the justification of taking the life of someone's child.

I have been trying to avoid all supposition and speculation because of where it leads.
And for the most part, do so.
But I have at times, because apparently, at this forum, you have to.

I don't think that is true. Ask anyone in here, and the position I am taking as of now, is quite opposite what seem to be the norm of my usual friends, and compatriots here. Maybe it is true that Politics makes strange bedfellows, but something about this to me just stinks.


Evidence is evidence. It doesn't need to be entered into any trial to be evidence.
Have you ever heard of evidence not being admitted by the Judge? It was still evidence, it just not able to be admitted at trial for specific reasons.
But if you prefer we can use the term 'information', but that term is what is usually used for charging a person.

We are not a court here, and you are free to consider anything you wish, but I certainly hope that goes for me as well....

Now this is actually "arguing selected portions of speculation given by media sources".
But, it isn't true.

How so? is there a document, or anything stating that he was a member of the Neighborhood Watch?

The 911 dispatcher, made a "suggestion", that Zimmerman had no obligation to follow.
As a side note, Zimmerman at one point must have stop following Zimmerman. According to the evidence, Zimmerman was on his way back to his truck. That would mean he wasn't following him doesn't it?

Who knows if Zimmerman is telling the truth? I don't?

Zimmerman following a suspicious person to keep him under observation until police arrive is not wrong and does not any anyway make Zimmerman the aggressor.

Getting out of his vehicle to pursue on foot is beyond what I would think is reasonable under the circumstances.

I do not know how when you got them all wrong, and the known evidence doesn't support that conclusion.

That is your opinion.

Two statements.
The evidence states that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first with a question. First contact.
Zimmerman's statement says Trayvon attacked from behind. Again, first contact.

Which do not make sense...Which was it? Did Treyvon approach him asking why Zimmerman was following, or did Treyvon attack from behind? The two are not in sync with each other.

I am sure that we do not have all the evidence that the police and prosecution does.

That doesn't match the impression that you are giving of this case.

But that is not the known evidence available to us is it?
And that is what we are talking about here. The evidence as known by us. The known evidence.
Not known to them, but known to us.

Much of what we have is heresay from the shooter himself...I want more.

Obviously what the police have, that they clued us into, as evidenced from the Police Chief's quoted statements, was that what they had wasn't enough to bring charges. That's the clue.

Another clue is that the State and Federal investigations have been launched to question that conclusion.

That is part of the evidence we are discussing, right?
The evidence that they have, and we do not, was not enough to bring charges.
That is the evidence we have.
Please tell me what you do not understand about that?

Look, I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of anything or not. That is not what I am arguing. What I am saying is that look. put yourself into this 17yr. old's shoes. You go to the store, you are on your way home walking through a neighborhood, it is drizzling so your hoodie is up, and you are talking to your girlfriend on the phone as you walk. Then a car starts shadowing you as you walk, so you tell your girlfriend about it as you look at the driver. Then you start to run because you have no idea what the hell this guy wants, and he gets out and starts chasing you...What the hell you supposed to do?


j-mac
 
it was in an article on Yahoo News. Ill find it.

meanwhile, back up your claim that he was not the only member of his neighborhood watch team.
That is right.
It's a claim and that is all it is.
And as j-mac pointed out - this is where we get into the realm of "arguing selected portions of speculation given by media sources."

I've seen it reported as 46 calls, 9 of which were calls of suspicion, since January 1st, and reported as 46 calls since January of last year, which averages out to 3 calls a month.

So which one should we choose to accept as real?
And since only nine of those calls were for someone or something suspicious.
Just how does that make his words suspicious?



Take your time. I didn't realize the time. I have to go out, but I will be back.
 
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I would LOVE for someone to explain to me, why we should trust one thing Zimmerman says.

Considering his history of beating cops, beating women, obsessively calling 911, and now baselessly accusing Martin of being on drugs and scoping out houses, of being an asshole and being a "****ing punk", I see no reason to consider his statement.
 
I would LOVE for someone to explain to me, why we should trust one thing Zimmerman says.

Based on the investigators observations and close attention to eyewitness testimony, the conclusion was... no evidence that Zimmerman committed a crime

Its that simple
 
Based on the investigators observations and close attention to eyewitness testimony, the conclusion was... no evidence that Zimmerman committed a crime

Its that simple

investigators?

which investigators?

which detectives went over all the evidence, spoke to all the witnesses?
 
investigators?

which investigators?

which detectives went over all the evidence, spoke to all the witnesses?


Yeah, the detectives that supposedly let Zimmerman just go on home with a supposed head injury and broken nose? Old saying, 'you can't unscramble broken eggs' so now they better get busy and make the omelet.

j-mac
 
take it up with the mods, otherwise I'll point out I have contributed far more info in this thread then you, making your demand rather idiotic.

You are safe with me. As much as I despise your mentally unstable ass I do not rat people out.
 
Exactly, and let me stress again that, under the Stand Your Ground law, it does not apply if YOU are the one who is escalating the situation. And the 911 recording itself is the smoking gun here. Zimmerman was clearly stalking Martin.

First, I apologize for posting in the wrong thread. For some odd reason, my box acted as if it had two IP addresses and two different connections to DebatePolitics.com, and somehow, my posts ended up inside a different thread. At any rate - all of these Tyvon/Zimmerman threads, are really discussing the exact same topic anyway, with only minor deviations - so, in retrospect, my post could have been made and fit right in.

To respond to your reply - you are absolute correct. Stalking is the intentional pursuing of another, whether or not you have the intent to make physical contact. I can stalk you from the moment you leave your garage in the morning on your way to work. I can then stalk you after you park your car and get out and walk into your place of business. However, I never have to physically make contact with you, in order for my previous actions to be considered stalking.

Not only did Zimmerman stalk Trayvon, but he actually did it while on the phone with 911! It does not get anymore clearer than that. There is no question in this case, that Zimmerman, is THE prime suspect in an unsolved murder case. How the man was never taken into custody, and how these Keystone Cops could simply take Zimmerman's word, that he had no prior criminal history, without running a criminal background check, when the man stood over the top of a dead body laying on the ground while holding the smoking gun in his right hand - is beyond all comprehension, whatsoever.

One way or another, Mr. Zimmerman is coming to Father Justice. There's just too darn much evidence supporting Probable Cause.
 
Again, a dispatcher's word has NO basis in freaking law- they can't *tell, order, instruct, etc* anyone to do anything

Do you think all dispatchers are good? lol

I think for ever good one on a night rotation....3 are god awful

The dispatcher's order to stop following Martin does not have any basis in law. However, Zimmerman's admittance to the dispatcher that he was following Martin, and his refusal to stop following Martin after the dispatcher told him not to, is proof that he was stalking Martin, and that it was he, not Martin, who escalated the situation. Therefore, neither Stand Your Ground, nor self defense, is any kind of tenable defense in a court of law. Zimmerman is going down.
 
Yeah, the detectives that supposedly let Zimmerman just go on home with a supposed head injury and broken nose? Old saying, 'you can't unscramble broken eggs' so now they better get busy and make the omelet.

j-mac

So losing a fight you started is reason enough to shot and kill somebody

Good to know

To get my kicks I am going to Florida, grab people, start a fight, get a broken nose and shoot them
 
So losing a fight you started is reason enough to shot and kill somebody

Good to know

To get my kicks I am going to Florida, grab people, start a fight, get a broken nose and shoot them

I have a dream of taking my gun to Florida, seeing Rush Limbaugh on the street, calling him a slut, then standing my ground when he comes after me. LOL. :mrgreen:
 
So losing a fight you started is reason enough to shot and kill somebody

Good to know

To get my kicks I am going to Florida, grab people, start a fight, get a broken nose and shoot them

No, I think I was unclear....I think the initial police summary of the scene and event was sloppy, and the first contact investigation botched. At least for the moment Zimmerman should have been taken into custody, and questioned further, and a real investigation with all the i's dotted, and t's crossed....Now look what they have....


j-mac
 
I have a dream of taking my gun to Florida, seeing Rush Limbaugh on the street, calling him a slut, then standing my ground when he comes after me. LOL. :mrgreen:

You are mistaken if you think that Limbaugh would even do anything but laugh. But, nice to know that you have such violent fantasies about people you don't like.

j-mac
 
the ridiculous thing is people think he is guilty for not following an "order" to not follow, when the dispatch also told him seconds before he ran to "let me know if he does anything else"

The ridiculous thing are people who don't seem to have enough common sense see the Probable Cause in arresting and detaining Zimmerman, until a proper homicide investigation could be concluded and a decision to file charges could be reasonably made, given the fact the Zimmerman's weapon had been the only weapon known to have been discharged anywhere near the dead body of Tryvon Martin.

It seems to me that the level of intelligence brought to this particular case by many in America, is lower than that which one might bring to Duck Throwing Contest in the backwoods of Memphis.


So how do I tell them what else he is doing when he just ran out of site?

Falsifying evidence in spite of the 911 tape being in the public domain, argues vociferously for the total lack of rational judgement in making the decision to foolishly support the notion that Probable Cause does not exist in this case. You are not telling the truth about the sequence of events that unfolded during the 911 dialogue. Zimmerman, was clearly told by the dispatcher that they did not need him to follow Tryvon - period.

If Zimmerman's brain is that dysfunctional, to the point where he can't get the neuronal message from his cranium, through his central nervous system and out to his own two feet, in enough time to fully stop his body from leaving his own house, entering the streets, and approaching another human being with a concealed weapon on his person; then I question whether or not Zimmerman should even be allowed to hold a drivers license, let alone a darn Conceal Weapons Permit in a "civilized society" such as ours.

he immediately started following - for the first time - to obey that request.

You are not telling the truth once again. Zimmerman, did not immediately start following because he took the time to stare down Tryvon, while taking the time to give the police a physical description - all of it talking place from Zimmerman's own property. He then indicted himself with his own words, when he told the 911 dispatcher: "They always get away with this...." (paraphrasing).

Get away with what? Can you answer that question, because the Keystone Cops (apparently) failed to ask Zimmerman what he meant by: "They always get away with this..." (paraphrasing). What was it that Tryvon Martin got away with?


then when he was told he didn't have to, he said "ok".

You are not telling the truth again. You need to listen to the sequence of events in this 911 call:

1) Zimmerman calls 911
2) Zimmerman give description of Tryvon to 911
3) Zimmerman says "This guys is up to no good, he looks like he's on drugs or something"
4) Zimmerman continues to give physical description of Tryvon
5) Zimmerman says "He's just staring, walking around... looking at all the houses"
6) Zimmerman says "Now, he's just staring at me"
7) Zimmerman says "That's the clubhouse" (identifying the address for 911)
8) Zimmerman says "He's got his in his waistband"
9) Zimmerman says "He's a black male"
10) Zimmerman says "Something is wrong with him"
11) Zimmerman says "Yeah, he's coming to check me out"
12) Zimmerman says "He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is"

911 Dispatcher interrupts and says: "THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO HERE, WE (THE POLICE) ARE ON OUR WAY. JUST LET ME KNOW IF HE DOES ANYTHING ELSE."

13) Zimmerman THEN says "THESE ASSHOLES, THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY..."
14) Zimmerman's very next words were: HE'S RUNNING..."

911 Dispatcher ask's Zimmerman, "Which way is he running."

Now, this is where Zimmerman can be clearly heard as pursuing Tryvon, by running after him.

15) Zimmerman, struggling to breath then says "Down to the entrance to the neighborhood"

911 Dispatcher ask's Zimmerman, "Which entrance?"

16) Zimmerman, struggling to breath again says "The back entrance."

911 Dispatcher ask's Zimmerman, "Are you following him?"

17) Zimmerman says "Yes."

911 Dispatcher tells Zimmerman, "Ok, we don't need you to do that."

18) Zimmerman says "Ok."


Seconds later, Trayvon Martin, was heard yelling (according to a Female witness who gave an interview on CNN): "Get off me! Get off...". A shot was heard, and instantly, the yelling stopped (according to the same Female witness on CNN).


show me some real evidence that can prove that is not what happened.

Really?
 
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You are mistaken if you think that Limbaugh would even do anything but laugh. But, nice to know that you have such violent fantasies about people you don't like.

j-mac

It was a joke. Lighten up. LOL.
 
The critical keys in my above analysis of the 911 call, right up to the murder of Trayvon Martin, are Zimmerman's "offerings."

Zimmerman "offers" that Trayvon is walking around
Zimmerman "offers" that Trayvon is looking at houses
Zimmerman "offers" that Trayvon is staring at him
Zimmerman "offers" that Trayvon had his hands in his waistband
Zimmerman "offers" the Trayvon was on drugs
Zimmerman "offers" that Trayvon had approached him

Then Zimmerman hung himself when he "offered" yet another self-projection:

"These assholes always get away with this..." and "He's running."

Firstly, why is Trayvon running? From whom is Trayvon, running? From what is Trayvon, running?

Trayvon, was approaching Zimmerman (according to Zimmerman's own statement). So, why would Trayvon, all of a sudden not only stop approaching Zimmerman, but START running? Running from what? How does Trayvon, go from Approaching Zimmerman, to Running?

Common sense should tell anyone that Zimmerman was lying through his teeth during the entire 911 call! Common sense should tell anyone that Zimmerman, was setting up the kill! Common sense should tell anyone that Zimmerman, had the intent to murder Trayvon Martin in cold blood. And, you have Mr. Zimmerman's own bizarre behavior as evidence.

You don't start approaching someone, in the rain for no good reason at all, and then all of a sudden start running. That entire sequence of events makes no sense, whatsoever. Not to any thinking human being.

I'm going to approach you and THEN, for no good reason, just start running! Why? Why would I do that? What's my motivation for running BEFORE I got shot? Huh?
 
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Excuse me?
Calling 911 is taking action on an observation - oh no the manual contradicts itself. :)
I can't even begin to figure out where you see a contradiction in a manual that states a neighborhood watchman is to do no more than contact police over suspicious activities, but hey, you seem desperate so you'll say just about anything.

Can you point out where exactly it says not to keep someone under observation?
Can you also point out where it says keeping someone under observation is taking action on itself? lol

I can't wait.
Stalking someone is an "action."

Zimmerman was part of his neighborhood's NW program. And was a block Captain. He was not the only one.

This particular program was not registered, but there is no requirement for it to be.
He was warned ...

Police volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival said she met Zimmerman in September at a community neighborhood watch presentation.

“I said, ‘If it’s someone you don’t recognize, call us. We’ll figure it out,’ ” Dorival said. “‘Observe from a safe location.’ There’s even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don’t know how many more times I can repeat it.”

I have seen no evidence that says Zimmerman was in his truck at that time.
The two two statements in evidence for that moment come from Zimmerman and Trayvon's girlfriend.
Unless you are calling Trayvon's girlfriend a liar along with Zimmerman? Are you?

So what is your point with this irrelevant and false information?
It is clear you don't understand what my point was. You should stya clear of it for your own safety.
 
300 murders in this country every day most black on black and Hussein Obama sticks his nose in this one. Get your ass out of it Hussein Obama let the police do their work!!!!!!!
 
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