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Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

What facts do you have that the rest of us don't have 10 times the access to?

There was at least one female witness, whom the police never even tried to interview, who said that she both HEARD and SAW Trayvon, yelling and screaming the words: "Get off me! Get off.....", just before the gun shot was heard on the 911 tape. Now, what part about that do you not understand, exactly?

This woman was not Black - she was more White than you are! She made it on MSNBC and CNN, but has not been heard from since then. Where is she now?

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - Orlando Sentinel


Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account

you have been duped by the media (IMO)
 
The grand jury investigation of this case is most likely going to be shut down, but before anybody screams coverup, they should know that the special prosecutor appointed by Governor Scott is one of the most hard nosed Conservative prosecutors in the entire nation. Angela Corey has been criticized by Liberals for her controversial stances of trying juveniles as adults, and seeking maximum punishment in the vast majority of the cases she has tried. She will undoubtedly not be accepting any excuses from Zimmerman here. Instead, if she determines that Zimmerman broke the law, he will be going to prison for a very long time.

In the end, this is not about Liberal versus Conservative. It is about the whole nation coming together against an asshole weekend warrior policeman wannabe who took the law into his own hands, and murdered an innocent boy. Democrats are shocked. Republicans are shocked. The police chief has been forced to step down, and justice is going to be meted out in spades. At this point, let me bring home 2 important points of Florida's Stand Your Ground Law:

1) Under the law, you can only meet a threat with equal force. If you go further, then Stand Your Ground does not apply.

AND (And this is most important)

2) The person you stand up to must have been the one to initiate action which made you feel threatened. If you are stalking someone, or otherwise following them them, then it is YOU who initiated the confrontation, and Stand Your Ground does not apply. When Zimmerman ignored the police dispatcher's order to stop following Trayvon Martin, he cut himself off from Stand Your Ground, and thus, under Florida's law, he went from defending himself against a threat to committing homicide.

At this time, I am not ready to say that there is a racist element to this case, in that police did not thoroughly investigate the shooting. I will chalk it up to incompetence. As for the prosecutor that Governor Scott appointed, this shows me that, if indeed, Zimmerman is to be charged with a crime, the State of Florida intends to make an example out of him, as a warning to other militia weekend warrior wannabes. In a civilized society you do NOT stalk someone, armed with a gun, for ANY reason. That's what police are for - To investigate the possibility that a crime is about to be committed, and then act accordingly. Those who are not cops, but attempt to take those kinds of powers unto themselves, as vigilantes, deserve whatever they get when they go off the reservation, as Zimmerman did.

If there is a silver lining in all of this, it is that a law that many Florida policemen and prosecutors opposed is going to be under scrutiny, and may soon be abolished. Unfortunately, there is no silver lining for the mother of a boy who was murdered while purchasing a soft drink and a box of candy.

Article is here.
I'm curious what Curtis Silwa and other "neighborhood watch" advocates have to say about this case. As far as I am aware, carrying actual guns is not encouraged and neither is solo " neighborhood watching". I have forgotten the name of the "expert" that I heard today, but his track record as a defense attorney was listed before he spoke and he rarely loses. As a defense attorney. When asked what he as a defense attorney of note thought of the case, his take was that "best case" for Zimmerman is he got himself into a fight and when he started to lose it, he pulled his gun and shot the person he was fighting. This IMO does not actually require review of the law in question, though I'm not familiar with the issues around it. I put the use of the law as an excuse or rationalization at the feet of the local police chief/force and their so called "investigation".

ya, I imagine I'll get dinged for pointing at his little soap box rant about how we should all think would fit perfectly in the other thread on the top of this forum with 5 million views.
Because it is a different aspect of the topic and that thread has more than enough participation, in fact it has become such a mess I unsubscribed from it. So if you don't like or want to participate in this one, by all means go away. Make sure you unsubscribe from it, this will aid you greatly on being bothered by all the nonsense you don't like in this one. Just saying.
 
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Exactly, and let me stress again that, under the Stand Your Ground law, it does not apply if YOU are the one who is escalating the situation. And the 911 recording itself is the smoking gun here. Zimmerman was clearly stalking Martin.

Zimmerman's attorney is not claiming SYG applies. His client killed Martin in self defense.

"In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman. "This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"

Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com
 
Zimmerman's attorney is not claiming SYG applies. His client killed Martin in self defense.



Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com
Thank you Maggie. That of course is what Zimmerman's defense attorneys will try to claim. We will be living with this case for at least the next two years, not sure I'll still be around here by then. But the long time score keepers (who never cease to share with me the long time score, from all political directions, uninvited) are no doubt already making their list. You post should confound them for a bit, until they check your other posts on the topic. Wink.
 
Whoa there driver, you really are misinformed on this case.
At this point I have given actual quotes, and the actual evidence that is currently known. Not supposition.
Please understand that.
The actual evidence that is known.
Not supposition.


And, you know that how, exactly? You were there? You witnessed Trayvon, attacking Zimmerman?
I already gave the evidence of this.
See post 11.
That is the only evidence we have.


Common sense should have told the man to follow the dispatchers advise. Apparently, Zimmerman, had no common sense.
He was acting in the capacity of NW and was trying to keep a suspicious person under observation until the police arrived.
There is nothing wrong with that at all.
We find out from Trayvon's girlfriend that Trayvon lost Zimmerman.
And then in Zimmerman's statement, which is evidence, states that he was attacked from behind on his way back to his truck.


Zimmerman, places the call to 911
Check.
Zimmerman, is the one staring down Trayvon, because Zimmerman is the one giving a description to the police
Mischaracterization of observing, but
Check
Zimmerman, is the one who indicts himself with the statement, "They always get away with stuff like this..." (stuff like what? and who is "they" by the way)
Opinion and not fact.
This means nothing and has no effect on the actual evidence.
Zimmerman, is one who leave his house and pursues after 911 effectively tells him not to
Wrong
he was in his truck, and a suggestion is not an effective anything, and it really doesn't matter because of no obligation see post #11​
Zimmerman, is the one who confronts Trayvon
Wrong
Trayvon's girlfriend confirms that Trayvon confronts Zimmerman first with a question​
Zimmerman, is the one who approaches Trayvon according to the evidence
Wrong
Zimmerman's statement was that he was attacked from behind. That would be Trayvon approaching him first.​
Zimmerman, is the one carrying a concealed weapon
Check
legally carrying concealed​
Zimmerman, had a past that was known for making bogus calls to 911
Wrong
Zimmerman, self appoints as the neighborhood "watchmen"
Wrong
Trayvon was not actually going home. So you are wrong again.
And, not that you said it, but he wasn't in his own neighborhood as many have said.

Links can be provided for all the above information accept for the one that is solely your opinion. Most has already been provide in the other thread.
But if you are not going to use that independent thinker and believe in factual evidence, then you should hunt for them yourself.
But if you are willing to give them an honest review I will be more than happy to provide the information in this topic also.

The previously provided quotes and links in this thread should have already pointed out some of the flaws in what you believe about this case.



But, let another black man get accused of killing a white woman in this country and you'll be standing out in front of his door (long before he gets arrested) chanting your disapproval by labeling him a "Murder, Murder, Murder!" - before he ever goes to trial, or even gets arrested and charged with a criminal act.
You got the wrong person here driver.


It isn't "exactly" when he is factually incorrect and just plain wrong.
 
So, you do have the ability to think independently. Hmmmm.
What are you getting at driver?
Do you think some smarmy remark makes you an independent thinker?
lol
Well we will see how much of an independent thinker you are.

As it stands, reciting false information of this case and of the misinformed opinion of what appears to be the majority, does not reflect well on someone who hopes to be an independent thinker.


There was at least one female witness, whom the police never even tried to interview, who said that she both HEARD and SAW Trayvon, yelling and screaming the words: "Get off me! Get off.....", just before the gun shot was heard on the 911 tape. Now, what part about that do you not understand, exactly?
Did you not see the linked to, and quoted words in post #11 of an individual who was standing at the actual scene before going inside?
He identified who was who, and who was calling for help.
Before you go any further, do you understand that? He was actually there.
It was Zimmerman calling for help, and it was Trayvon on top of him.
And this person's statements are corroborated by Zimmerman's statement.
That is two people who were actually at the scene saying the same thing.

Now get ready to use that independent thinker that is in your cranium.
Are you ready?

Now who's statements are most believable?
The man that was on the scene who's statement Zimmerman corroborates, or this woman who was wasn't on the scene but viewed from a longer distance and through a window for a very short period of time?
Huh?
Who?
Yeah, we know.
The statement from the man on the scene is more believable and is corroborated by Zimmerman's own statement.
The woman's statement is obviously a mis-identification.
 
And what is your opinion where it comes to Zimmerman ignoring the police dispatcher's order to stop following Martin?
So what is your opinion now that you find out it wasn't an order but only a "suggestion" and had no duty to follow it?
Any position on the other evidence presented?
 
Zimmerman was clearly stalking Martin.
That is absurd.
How do you get stalking out of NW trying to keep someone under observation until police arrive?
Stalking is a total mis-chracterization of what occurred.
 
That is absurd.
How do you get stalking out of NW trying to keep someone under observation until police arrive?
Stalking is a total mis-chracterization of what occurred.


[Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted and obsessive attention by an individual or group to another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person and/or monitoring them.]

I think following someone in a vehicle while armed and then getting out of vehicle to chase them follows the definition quite well.

Forget the false point you keep bringing up of Zimmerman keeping him under observation until police arrived. You make it sound as if he was working with the police dept. Maybe in his parnaoid mind as well as yours he was some type of special agent of the police dept.

No matter how much you and others here try to now tarnish Martin the fact is going to remain Zimmerman killed him in cold blood, period. If the police dept had done their job correct then none of us would be debating this.
 
join the active discussion on this topic. this one can be about your absolute glee over the politicization of this tragedy and your strange notion that the nation will unite over a gun rights dispute.

This isn't a gun rights dispute, it's a criminal investigation.
 
The grand jury investigation of this case is most likely going to be shut down, but before anybody screams coverup, they should know that the special prosecutor appointed by Governor Scott is one of the most hard nosed Conservative prosecutors in the entire nation. Angela Corey has been criticized by Liberals for her controversial stances of trying juveniles as adults, and seeking maximum punishment in the vast majority of the cases she has tried. She will undoubtedly not be accepting any excuses from Zimmerman here. Instead, if she determines that Zimmerman broke the law, he will be going to prison for a very long time.

In the end, this is not about Liberal versus Conservative. It is about the whole nation coming together against an asshole weekend warrior policeman wannabe who took the law into his own hands, and murdered an innocent boy. Democrats are shocked. Republicans are shocked. The police chief has been forced to step down, and justice is going to be meted out in spades. At this point, let me bring home 2 important points of Florida's Stand Your Ground Law:

1) Under the law, you can only meet a threat with equal force. If you go further, then Stand Your Ground does not apply.

AND (And this is most important)

2) The person you stand up to must have been the one to initiate action which made you feel threatened. If you are stalking someone, or otherwise following them them, then it is YOU who initiated the confrontation, and Stand Your Ground does not apply. When Zimmerman ignored the police dispatcher's order to stop following Trayvon Martin, he cut himself off from Stand Your Ground, and thus, under Florida's law, he went from defending himself against a threat to committing homicide.

At this time, I am not ready to say that there is a racist element to this case, in that police did not thoroughly investigate the shooting. I will chalk it up to incompetence. As for the prosecutor that Governor Scott appointed, this shows me that, if indeed, Zimmerman is to be charged with a crime, the State of Florida intends to make an example out of him, as a warning to other militia weekend warrior wannabes. In a civilized society you do NOT stalk someone, armed with a gun, for ANY reason. That's what police are for - To investigate the possibility that a crime is about to be committed, and then act accordingly. Those who are not cops, but attempt to take those kinds of powers unto themselves, as vigilantes, deserve whatever they get when they go off the reservation, as Zimmerman did.

If there is a silver lining in all of this, it is that a law that many Florida policemen and prosecutors opposed is going to be under scrutiny, and may soon be abolished. Unfortunately, there is no silver lining for the mother of a boy who was murdered while purchasing a soft drink and a box of candy.

Article is here.



There is nothing wrong with the Stand Your Ground law, it doesnt need to be repealed or modified. As YOU pointed out, it is debateable whether Zimmerman was actually acting correctly under that law when he shot.

Eyewitnesses have established that there was a physical fight between Zimmerman and Martin, in which Zimmerman was injured; at this point there is no solid info on who started it, but that does tend to support Z's claim to SD to some degree.... unless it is found that he initiated the confrontation himself, which is always a Bad Thing in any SD claim unless it is in your own house or yard or outbuildings.

I have this strange thing going on here, in that I'm going to wait for the TRIAL before I convict anyone. :roll:
 
If there is a silver lining in all of this, it is that a law that many Florida policemen and prosecutors opposed is going to be under scrutiny, and may soon be abolished.

That's not a silver lining.

You pointed out specifically why the law probably doesn't apply here, and only "probably" because we don't seem to have ALL the facts like a grand jury hopefully will.

If the law doesn't apply here - if the local police were simply incompetent and acting in error - then removing a good law that protects people from criminal and civil liability for self-defense is not "a silver lining," it would be an unfortunate outcome of stupid overreaction.
 
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And what is your opinion where it comes to Zimmerman ignoring the police dispatcher's order to stop following Martin?
I listened to the 911 call. Actually, Zimmerman was never ordered to stop following Martin.
 
1) Under the law, you can only meet a threat with equal force. If you go further, then Stand Your Ground does not apply.

Sorry, but you are wrong there. For instance, if a gang banger comes up to me that is bigger, I can and will shoot him. That would be legal.


AND (And this is most important)

2) The person you stand up to must have been the one to initiate action which made you feel threatened. If you are stalking someone, or otherwise following them them, then it is YOU who initiated the confrontation, and Stand Your Ground does not apply. When Zimmerman ignored the police dispatcher's order to stop following Trayvon Martin, he cut himself off from Stand Your Ground, and thus, under Florida's law, he went from defending himself against a threat to committing homicide.

Zimmerman felt that Trayvon might commit a crime and was following him. That is not stalking under any law.

The only part that is in question is what happened with the confrontation and who was the aggresor of that confrontation. You are also forgetting that Zimmerman was beaten and bloodied as well, so we know at some point Trayvon also used force. The question was did he use the force in defense or was he the aggresor. Those I can't answer and will leave up to the justice system to decide.

I know you feel strongly about this dana, but it is not cut and dry or Zimmerman would have been arrested and tried as guilty by now if it were that simple.

I'm not saying Zimmerman is not guilty either. I am very happy this is getting investigated finally.
 
join the active discussion on this topic. this one can be about your absolute glee over the politicization of this tragedy and your strange notion that the nation will unite over a gun rights dispute.

I can't believe you think this is about gun rights. Are all Conservatives so narrow minded? Oops, I answered my own question.
 
I can't believe you think this is about gun rights. Are all Conservatives so narrow minded? Oops, I answered my own question.

that and reverse racism are the agendas fueling this in the media.

the facts all bear out routine self defense. not stand your ground. not rampant racism. routine self defense.
 
Real Conservative. :roll:

Will you please stop perseverating about the thread itself? I'll bet your nicknames are Real Control Freak and Real Lonely. If you don't like the thread go away? Avoid it. We don't need a bazillion posts from one poster complaining about the OP.

Real Risky
 
No reason?
That football player attacked him.

Also, he wasn't under any obligation to follow the dispatchers advise.




Here is some more evidence that those not participating in the other thread may not be aware of.

You get around to explaining how Zimmerman left out the verbal exchange with Martin in his story of the event?
 
The facts all bear out routine self defense. not stand your ground. not rampant racism. routine self defense.

Yes, for Martin.

An armed man cannot scare the livin' bejeebers out of someone by slowly following him with his car...then exit his car and approach and then, because he's the last man standing, claim self-defense. Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his car.
 
Real Conservative. :roll:

Will you please stop perseverating about the thread itself? I'll bet your nicknames are Real Control Freak and Real Lonely. If you don't like the thread go away? Avoid it. We don't need a bazillion posts from one poster complaining about the OP.

Real Risky

take it up with the mods, otherwise I'll point out I have contributed far more info in this thread then you, making your demand rather idiotic.
 
Yes, for Martin.

An armed man cannot scare the livin' bejeebers out of someone by slowly following him with his car...then exit his car and approach and then, because he's the last man standing, claim self-defense. Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his car.

your take on these events is severely skewed

here is the entire 911 call

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Martin was scared when Zimmerman was simply at his car, on the phone with the police and looking at Martin.

your argument is a free person can't get out of the car and check to see where a potential suspect just ran off to.

its an opinion you can hold, but it will have no bearing on the makeup of this legal case.
 
your take on these events is severely skewed

here is the entire 911 call

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Martin was scared when Zimmerman was simply at his car, on the phone with the police and looking at Martin.

your argument is a free person can't get out of the car and check to see where a potential suspect just ran off to.

its an opinion you can hold, but it will have no bearing on the makeup of this legal case.

Ridiculous. If he was "already scared," sensible people would ask, "Then why the hell didn't you just drive away?? You damn well knew the LEO's were on their way." That's not going to fly, my friend.

Whether or not charges are pressed, whether or not he is found guilty or innocent, a whole bunch of law-abiding Americans are going to put the blame for Martin's death squarely on Zimmerman's shoulders...where it belongs.

Stay in the car and drive away: A few minutes later, a marked police car pulls up to Martin...a uniformed police officer exits his vehicle...asks Martin what his business is in the neighborhood (Personally, I don't think he should even ask that.) Martin tells him...continues to walk to his dad's girlfriend's house...drinks his iced tea...and finishes his Skittles.
 
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So his own lawyer says the cops were wrong to not press charges based on SYG?

which officer by name cited stand your ground as the reason to not arrest? do you have that link?
 
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