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Thread: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

  1. #141
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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Do you know when the call-in-progress to the girlfriend came out?
    I was busy researching... but, no I don't.

    [Update]

    Wednesday, March 21, by Bernjamin Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, I believe is the first public mention of it.
    Last edited by mogur15; 03-24-12 at 06:41 PM. Reason: update

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Going after someone as in following to keep them under observation is not wrong.

    Of course it's wrong. If it wasn't wrong, the neighborhood watch program wouldn't urgently warn its members not to do that.

    Call the police and report what you've seen.

    That's it.

    That's the extent of their role.


    Neighborhood Watch Manual

    REMEMBER:

    Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.
    - page 22


    Why do you think that is what neighborhood watch members are instructed to do?

    Why did Zimmerman ignore that; along with ignoring the 911 operator's advice to the same?
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 03-24-12 at 06:55 PM.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Of course it's wrong. If it wasn't wrong, the neighborhood watch program wouldn't urgently warn its members not to do that.

    Call the police and report what you've seen.

    That's it.

    That's the extent of their role.


    Neighborhood Watch Manual

    REMEMBER:

    Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.
    - page 22


    Why do you think that is what neighborhood watch members are instructed to do?

    Why did Zimmerman ignore that; along with ignoring the 911 operator's advice to the same?
    Because we're Americans mother****er. We ain't gotta do ****. USA! USA! USA!
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Of course it's wrong. If it wasn't wrong, the neighborhood watch program wouldn't urgently warn its members not to do that.

    Call the police and report what you've seen.

    That's it.

    That's the extent of their role.


    Neighborhood Watch Manual

    REMEMBER:

    Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.
    - page 22


    Why do you think that is what neighborhood watch members are instructed to do?

    Why did Zimmerman ignore that; along with ignoring the 911 operator's advice to the same?
    The neighborhood watch manual is considered a part of the U.S. code, now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    According to Zimmerman, Martin attacked him... this is partly supported by his injuries and two eyewitness accounts.... Bad Call #2.
    That is not supported by eyewitness accounts. The most eyewitnesses had to offer was describing that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman's injuries are evidence that he was getting his ass kicked ... by an unarmed person.

    No one other than the person claiming self-defense has said Zimmerman was first attacked by Martin.

    Who, by the way, was within his right to attack Zimmerman if he reasonably believed the stranger following him in the dark for no apparent reason, first by car, then by foot, posed an imminent threat to him.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Of course they are and it is something that the legal system has to deal with.
    In my opinion, they don't do enough, but that means nothing overall.
    Also like to add...Cops don't sit on criminal juries and eyewitness statements are notorious for being incorrect.

    Anyone who believes the criminal justice system is an actual system and on the level is probably bull****ting themselves



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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    The known evidence says that Zimmerman was attacked from behind - Zimmerman
    Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first w/a question. - Trayvon's girlfriend
    Zimmerman was in his car ... how was Martin in a position to ask Zimmerman why he was following him?

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, you are arguing selected portions of speculation given by media sources.
    I don't see where you are getting that from?

    Provided Quotes are not speculation.
    The police report is not speculation.
    The quotes from the on scene eye-witness is not speculation.
    Quotes from the 911 calls are not speculation.
    Quotes from Trayvons girlfriend are not speculation.

    This is the known evidence.
    That is what we have.

    Do we need to go over each and every one again for their establishment?


    I have been trying to avoid all supposition and speculation because of where it leads.
    And for the most part, do so.
    But I have at times, because apparently, at this forum, you have to.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nothing has legally been entered into evidence in any public trial. So you don't know, unless you are part of the law enforcement team investigating this at the moment....
    Evidence is evidence. It doesn't need to be entered into any trial to be evidence.
    Have you ever heard of evidence not being admitted by the Judge? It was still evidence, it just not able to be admitted at trial for specific reasons.
    But if you prefer we can use the term 'information', but that term is what is usually used for charging a person.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I disagree.

    As reported since that is the only info we have to go on...

    1. Zimmerman self described himself as a NW commander.
    Now this is actually "arguing selected portions of speculation given by media sources".
    But, it isn't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    2. Zimmerman iniated pursuit of Martin as Martin told his girlfriend over the phone.
    This is a characterization of it and most likely the way Trayvon saw it.
    But it isn't entirely accurate.
    More accurately stated, was that Zimmerman, acting in the capacity of NW followed a person who he thought was suspicious, to keep him under observation until the police who he called arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    3. Zimmerman was advised to no pursue by 911 operators, and ignored that advice.
    The 911 dispatcher, made a "suggestion", that Zimmerman had no obligation to follow.
    As a side note, Zimmerman at one point must have stop following Zimmerman. According to the evidence, Zimmerman was on his way back to his truck. That would mean he wasn't following him doesn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    4. Martin started to run, Zimmerman ran after him.
    Zimmerman following a suspicious person to keep him under observation until police arrive is not wrong and does not any anyway make Zimmerman the aggressor.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    These things IMHO, make Zimmerman the aggressor....
    I do not know how when you got them all wrong, and the known evidence doesn't support that conclusion.
    Two statements.
    The evidence states that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first with a question. First contact.
    Zimmerman's statement says Trayvon attacked from behind. Again, first contact.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We don't know all the "known evidence" as the investigation is ongoing.
    I am sure that we do not have all the evidence that the police and prosecution does.
    But that is not the known evidence available to us is it?
    And that is what we are talking about here. The evidence as known by us. The known evidence.
    Not known to them, but known to us.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then you should cease saying that it was self defense. Good God man, you haven't got a clue what evidence the Police have and what they don't...You can act as arrogant as you please,
    Obviously what the police have, that they clued us into, as evidenced from the Police Chief's quoted statements, was that what they had wasn't enough to bring charges. That's the clue.

    That is part of the evidence we are discussing, right?
    The evidence that they have, and we do not, was not enough to bring charges.
    That is the evidence we have.
    Please tell me what you do not understand about that?

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The neighborhood watch manual is considered a part of the U.S. code, now?
    Your silly hyperbole aside, of course it's not law. Which is why I'm surprised it escaped your attention that I called it a "procedure" and not a "law." How did you miss that??

    It is the procedure to be followed by those who volunteer for the service. They take a training course by local law enforcement, it's that important that these procedures be followed in order to avert what occurred here.

    IMO, once Zimmerman accepted his role as a neighborhood watch and decided to not only violate their procedures, but the advice of the 911 dispatcher, he became negligent in his duties and that negligence was one of, if not the most, contributing factors in an unarmed teenager heading back to where he was staying after going to 7-11 to buy some candy.

    I hope they get Zimmerman, at the very least, for negligent homicide.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not at all...but I have a problem with a 17 Year old being shot, when all he was armed with was an Iced Tea, and Skittles.


    j-mac
    The bad fallout will result in level headed folk, remembering this (how Zimmerman got screwed) and looking the other way so as not to risk ****ing up thier own lives, even when their instincts tell them they are witnessing a crime or dispatchers *suggesting* people to go away and not get involved.

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