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Thread: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
    If he shoot after being attacked he's only guilty of being nosy.on a side note ,most of the pics I found on the msm show the victim at a much earlier age.I wonder why?

    It goes beyond nosy when you take a gun with you and use it disproportionately to any level of attack coming at you, even if there was a witness, that witness said nothing about Martin having a gun.


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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Martin is dead and there's only one to tell the story.

    Zimmerman must articulate his reasons for shooting. Zimmerman must say that he was in immediate fear of his life or great bodily harm and he shot to stop his attacker. Period

    He must stick with his story. Practice it. Repeat it, over and over again until, he becomes what he is practicing and he is home free
    There's nothing that will keep Zimmerman out of the pen. He's screwed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Zimmerman's attorney is not claiming SYG applies. His client killed Martin in self defense.

    "In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman. "This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"
    Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com
    I read this again ... Sounds like Zimmerman's attorney ain't the brightest. The whole controversy over the stand your ground law was that it was extended beyond the walls of one's house. Particularly paragraph #3 ...


    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's nothing that will keep Zimmerman out of the pen. He's screwed.

    I think that is true, but the speculation orgy going on now is far too titillating to pass up...

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    True...but shooting them may be.
    That may be, but if he acted in self-defense as claimed and not contradicted by the evidence.
    Then he should be fine if they actually follow the law.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That may be, but if he acted in self-defense as claimed and not contradicted by the evidence.
    Then he should be fine if they actually follow the law.

    Can you claim self defense when you are the aggressor that caused the altercation in the first place?

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "You don't need to do that sir..." That will be played over, and over, and over.
    They may do that. But once the defense shows and stresses that it wasn't wrong to keep someone under observation until police arrive.
    It should have an impact on whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense.
    Unless of course the jury is made up of the likes of some of the people here who just want to ignore that.

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    actually he is only quoting 776.032, which in turn lists any three making it apply. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031

    So he didn't actually say the decision was based on 776.013, he said it was based on 776.032
    Okay, I couldn't find a decent summary of what specific changes in Florida statutes that happened in 2005 that have been labeled 'stand your ground' laws, so I had to manually look it in the Florida statute archives. Here is what I found:

    In 2004 the statutes stood as follows-

    Title XLVI [CRIMES]
    Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.
    --A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

    776.031 Use of force in defense of others.

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

    776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.
    Archive: Florida Chapter 776 Statutes 2004


    Here's what changed in 2005 (and remains the same today)-

    Title XLVI [CRIMES]
    Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.
    --A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.
    ...
    --(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    ...

    776.031 Use of force in defense of others.

    776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.
    (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

    (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

    (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney's fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

    776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.
    Archive: Florida Chapter 776 Statutes 2005
    [All emphases mine]



    So, I believe we are both right, ARealConservative. Statute 776.013(3) is the only mention of "the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force...", but statute 776.012 and 776.032 are also part of the 'stand your ground' laws since 776.012 was changed to include "does not have a duty to retreat", and 776.032 was added to guarantee "immunity from criminal prosecution" if 776.012 or 776.013 is relevant (776.031 doesn't apply in this case). When chief Lee justified the release of Zimmerman, I believe he was invoking the 'stand your ground' statutes, so there... nanner, nanner (grin).
    Last edited by mogur15; 03-24-12 at 06:12 PM. Reason: to include quote formatting

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And that is the part I can't get past....Police were on their way, and Zimmerman continued to pursue after being told by the dispatcher that he didn't need to do that...I think if anything damning during a trial would mitigate this as being avoidable, it will be that.

    j-mac

    Again, a dispatcher's word has NO basis in freaking law- they can't *tell, order, instruct, etc* anyone to do anything

    Do you think all dispatchers are good? lol

    I think for ever good one on a night rotation....3 are god awful

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    Re: Trayvon Martin: Special prosecutor appointed in Trayvon Martin shooting case

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    They may do that. But once the defense shows and stresses that it wasn't wrong to keep someone under observation until police arrive.
    It should have an impact on whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense.
    Unless of course the jury is made up of the likes of some of the people here who just want to ignore that.

    Well, I don't think so, see I don't like to blame the dead victim unless there is evidence pointing to such, and not some anonymous supposed "witness".


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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