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Thread: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's there, you choose not to see it because it doesn't explicitly say "we will institute martial law and nationalize everything including the contents of your pantry" it is NOT there, and therefore doesn't exist in any form or even inferred. Which means more Redress playing "the literal" game in this thread.

    You and I both know politics is just as much about what IS said as it is about what ISN'T said. The coy "literal game" isn't fooling anyone so I'm not sure why you think it's a valid tactic going forward....
    I believe the language is intentionally vague. In politics as you know, even the least vague of interpretations are misconstrued all the time by the politicians in charge and the supreme court. Our constitution being one of the most prevalent examples. Too many of the statements that were meant to be taken literally, were chewed on, mis-analyzed and malformed to benefit the administrations in power.

    Although this may not literally seem like a threat, it's a building block and a step in the wrong direction. It's about the culmination of laws like this that will eventually be our undoing, not necessarily one in particular. It's our duty to be outraged and critical of our government.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's there, you choose not to see it because it doesn't explicitly say "we will institute martial law and nationalize everything including the contents of your pantry" it is NOT there, and therefore doesn't exist in any form or even inferred. Which means more Redress playing "the literal" game in this thread...
    so even though it doesn't say anything about martial law and seizing all personal property, that doesn't mean they can't declare martial law and seize all personal property?

    how's that work?

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I believe the language is intentionally vague. In politics as you know, even the least vague of interpretations are misconstrued all the time by the politicians in charge and the supreme court. Our constitution being one of the most prevalent examples. Too many of the statements that were meant to be taken literally, were chewed on, mis-analyzed and malformed to benefit the administrations in power.

    Although this may not literally seem like a threat, it's a building block and a step in the wrong direction. It's about the culmination of laws like this that will eventually be our undoing, not necessarily one in particular. It's our duty to be outraged and critical of our government.
    So you would rather wait for the invasion then have the government operate illegally to combat the threat?
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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So you would rather wait for the invasion then have the government operate illegally to combat the threat?
    I think it's worded far too vague to only grant power in the direst of circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    this reminds of how some folks were claiming that the PATRIOT Act was word for word identical to the German Enabling Act of 1933, which gave Hitler dictatorial power.

    of course, it was a lie. but certain folks didn't care.

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It does not say anything even remotely close to it. Nothing in the EO does this. If you can show evidence it does, please feel free.
    Sorry it took me so long to reply - work got in the way.

    So here's some things that concern me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Executive Order
    Sec. 103.* General Functions.* Executive departments and agencies (agencies) responsible for plans and programs relating to national defense (as defined in section 801(j) of this order), or for resources and services needed to support such plans and programs, shall:
    (a)* identify requirements for the full spectrum of emergencies, including essential military and civilian demand;
    (b)* assess on an ongoing basis the capability of the domestic industrial and technological base to satisfy requirements in peacetime and times of national emergency, specifically evaluating the availability of the most critical resource and production sources, including subcontractors and suppliers, materials, skilled labor, and professional and technical personnel;
    Quote Originally Posted by Referenced section 801(j)

    Section 801(j)
    Sec. 801.* Definitions.* In addition to the definitions in section 702 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2152, the following definitions apply throughout this order:
    (a)* "Civil transportation" includes movement of persons and property by all modes of transportation in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce within the United States, its territories and possessions, and the District of Columbia, and related public storage and warehousing, ports, services, equipment and facilities, such as transportation carrier shop and repair facilities.* "Civil transportation" also shall include direction, control, and coordination of civil transportation capacity regardless of ownership.* "Civil transportation" shall not include transportation owned or controlled by the Department of Defense, use of petroleum and gas pipelines, and coal slurry pipelines used only to supply energy production facilities directly.

    c)* "Farm equipment" means equipment, machinery, and repair parts manufactured for use on farms in connection with the production or preparation for market use of food resources.

    (e)* "Food resources" means all commodities and products, (simple, mixed, or compound), or complements to such commodities or products, that are capable of being ingested by either human beings or animals, irrespective of other uses to which such commodities or products may be put, at all stages of processing from the raw commodity to the products thereof in vendible form for human or animal consumption.* "Food resources" also means potable water packaged in commercially marketable containers, all starches, sugars, vegetable and animal or marine fats and oils, seed, cotton, hemp, and flax fiber, but does not mean any such material after it loses its identity as an agricultural commodity or agricultural product
    (j)* "National defense" means programs for military and energy production or construction, military or critical infrastructure assistance to any foreign nation, homeland security, stockpiling, space, and any directly related activity.* Such term includes emergency preparedness activities conducted pursuant to title VI of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. 5195 et seq., and critical infrastructure protection and restoration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, Title IV, Section 403 (3)

    (3) Work and services to save lives and protect property - Performing on public or private lands or waters any work or services essential to saving lives and protecting and preserving property or public health and safety, including -
    (A) debris removal;
    (B) search and rescue, emergency medical care, emergency mass care,
    emergency shelter, and provision of food, water, medicine, durable medical equipment, and other essential needs, including movement of supplies or persons;
    (C) clearance of roads and construction of temporary bridges necessary to the performance of emergency tasks and essential community services;
    (D) provision of temporary facilities for schools and other essential community services;
    (E) demolition of unsafe structures which endanger the public;
    (F) warning of further risks and hazards;
    27(G) dissemination of public information and assistance regarding health and safety measures;
    (H) provision of technical advice to State and local governments on disaster management and control;
    (I) reduction of immediate threats to life, property, and public health and safety; and
    (J) provision of rescue, care, shelter, and essential needs -
    (i) toindividualswithhouseholdpetsandserviceanimals;an d
    (ii) to such pets and animals.

    https://www.fema.gov/library/viewRec...search&id=3564
    So all fairly innocuous stuff for the most part but it's the stuff that's bolded that is really vague. So if the government needs it, they can say they're taking tons of grain without reimbursement to a farmer, to feed the masses. They can take farm equipment, regardless of it being private property. If there's an emergency, they can knock down my house by calling it a "danger to others" whether it is or not and use it as an emergency through way, or set up tents for a make shift school. All they have to do is say there's an immediate threat to life, property or public health. Of course I'm not saying that our government is evil and will do this just to get their jolly's, but I am saying that such language makes people who don't trust the government already even more distrustful.

    I'm sure such mistakes that are made will be the vast minority, yet human nature being what it is - I have to say I'm a bit troubled by such language. I mean, if you follow all the references in the FEMA document, you'd need a cadre of lawyers to translate it into plain English and to follow all of the links and formalities. I don't have a horse in this... I'm just saying I empathize with what was said and I can understand how people would be able to think the government could come in and take their stuff under some federal or state order.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    None of that talks about nationalization nor martial law, nor anything sinister. The EO is requiring the agencies to ensure there are plans to ensure that those things are available. The easist way to describe what the Eo does is to look at the example of the powergrid in the US. In the event of an attack, keeping the powergrid up and intact, in addition to ensuring that repairs to damage would be a key thing. This EO requires that a plan be in place to ensure supplies and manpower and whatever is needed is available. That is not nationalization, that is stockpiling.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of that talks about nationalization nor martial law, nor anything sinister.
    It depends upon who's reading it and what their perspective is... it may not seem sinister to you but I can certainly at least understand why others may see it as less than forthright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The EO is requiring the agencies to ensure there are plans to ensure that those things are available. The easist way to describe what the Eo does is to look at the example of the powergrid in the US. In the event of an attack, keeping the powergrid up and intact, in addition to ensuring that repairs to damage would be a key thing. This EO requires that a plan be in place to ensure supplies and manpower and whatever is needed is available. That is not nationalization, that is stockpiling.
    Agreed, but you didn't address any of the minor points I made... so they keep the power grid up. How does that help the farmer who just lost his farm equipment and products and animals because they were confiscated under "the public good" of a supposed emergency. I know the Spock defense ... I'm just saying it's not all milk and honey and it's not reasonable for everyone to give the government such a wide berth of being on the straight and narrow.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Nowhere in the EO does it say they can confiscate anything.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Nowhere in the EO does it say they can confiscate anything.
    of course it doesn't. such accusations are just ignorant hyperbole.

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