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Thread: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    I have always despised this guy and honestly don't know if he is looking for glory or truly trying to help but whatever the reason he is bringing attention to a very tragic situation and I commend him, That hurt, OUCH!

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    No I am not saying that.....but before one can help others one must help themselves.
    Clooney's well taken care of...I doubt he's going hungry any time soon. As for refraining from any attempts to influence policy in other parts of the world until/unless everything's ideal here, that would mean never ever attempting to influence policy in other parts of the world.

    In any case, the notion that a given issue must be perfectly solved in one's home country before addressing things abroad is a choice of values, not some self-obvious or inherent feature of politics in general.

    Clooney's activism (on several fronts) is in the tradition of conscientious people of privilege who recognize their own privilege as on opportunity to be an effective force for change. Contrasted against the norm of celebrities and the wealthy using most of their disposable time and income to simply rake in more disposable time and income, I welcome it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    The analogy applies here. Have we solved the hungry and the destitute here in the US?
    No, but the notion that we -- or anyone -- must do so before voicing criticism and dissent on other fronts or scales is arbitrary and bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Do you think Congressmen should be out demonstrating and being activitists for a cause that is outside of the United States?
    That's up to them. People do not surrender their free speech rights at the door when being elected to Congress. Some in congress manage to retain their conscience despite being elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Or should they be doing what their constituients sent them to Washington for? Because I doubt highly, Sudan was topping that list.
    Once again, a bizarre implicit standard. People in congress are not obligated, legally OR ethically, to exclusively spend all their waking hours doing the work of congress. Furthermore, there is no necessary conflict between advocating more humane policies internationally vs. at home. Either way, this idea that they must work exclusively and entirely for one and not at all for the other is completely unwarranted.
    Last edited by cmakaioz; 03-17-12 at 01:36 PM.
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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Thank you for pointing out some of the problems with US Foreign Policy showing how all that has worked for the last 50 years. I have no sympathy for politicans who want to serve their people. But then drop the ball doing so.

    These politicians may have to vote on bills or acts concerning Sudan. How can they do so objectionally if they are involved? Can any say they have no bias to influence that vote? Or that they want to give money to NFP's and set up NGO's in the Sudan.

    What do you think the perception is of US Lawmakers getting arrested for activism with issues concerning another foreign country, rather than their own? Is this an example to show those in the future that get into politics. That this is serving their people? Serving their interests? Is Massachusetts and Virginia conducting any buisness with the Sudan?

    Again.....what National Security Interests are cause for the US to get involved into another country's civil war and or conflicts for control and ruling that country?

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    These politicians may have to vote on bills or acts concerning Sudan. How can they do so objectionally if they are involved?
    I'm going to assume you meant "objectively".

    Let's save some time here. Objectivity is a farce. There is no such thing as a value-free action.

    Basing one's stance on empirical evidence is possible. Objectivity -- the mythical ideal of one's conclusions being impervious to influence from values -- is impossible...because *accuracy* is itself a value.

    The remainder of your post seems to continue your hysterical implied premise that people in congress are obligated to work under an arbitrary limitation of perspective (i.e. they must irrationally refuse to consider scales of influence and interaction above that of U.S. policy).

    You have never made any case for justifying such an irrational expectation. You seem to operate on the premise that people in congress should be bound by rules and obligations which -- thus far -- you are treating as obvious but which only you seem to know about.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    No I am not saying that.....but before one can help others one must help themselves. The analogy applies here. Have we solved the hungry and the destitute here in the US?
    We don't have anything in the US that is REMOTELY comparable to the poverty in the Sudan, so yes we have.

    Do you think Congressmen should be out demonstrating and being activitists for a cause that is outside of the United States?
    Sure, if they want to.

    Or should they be doing what their constituients sent them to Washington for?
    If you live in their district and you don't like it, vote for someone else. Otherwise, it's not really your place to say why their constituents sent them to Washington.

    Because I doubt highly, Sudan was topping that list.
    Do you show the same outrage when congresspeople express an interest in the wellbeing of Israel or Iraq or Afghanistan? Or is it only when they show concern for black people?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-17-12 at 02:19 PM.
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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yes that nice. Now what has it accomplished? Good thing Georgie Boy can't decide for the US to involve themsleves into another country's affairs. As far as my facts straight, I have them. Your Georgie boy.....is concerned about the travesties and injustices taking place in that country. What about in this country?
    What about it? Who the hell are you to tell people what parts of the world they should care about? Why should people be expected to care more about people who are located within the same arbitrarily-drawn border where they happened to be born, as opposed to people in other parts of the world? This is racist, nationalist nonsense.

    Is Georgie leading the way in their fight? Has Georgie used his millions to hire any mercs to do anything about his pet project.

    "Hire mercs"? It seems that you are a bit confused as to what it is that Clooney is actually advocating for in the first place.

    Yes Georgie is free to influence politicans to get involved into another countries affairs. Georgie is also free to move his azz right on over there too.
    Clooney has indeed spent a great deal of time in the Sudan.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-17-12 at 02:28 PM.
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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    We don't have anything in the US that is REMOTELY comparable to the poverty in the Sudan, so yes we have.



    Sure, if they want to.



    If you live in their district and you don't like it, vote for someone else. Otherwise, it's not really your place to say why their constituents sent them to Washington.



    Do you show the same outrage when congresspeople express an interest in the wellbeing of Israel or Iraq or Afghanistan? Or is it only when they show concern for black people?
    First I would go by the premise that any who are voted into office and sent to Washington are there to represent those from their states.(generally speaking and commonly known) Second I would be concerned about the US government throwing money out to foreign countries whether that Aid is Humanitarian or Military Aid. That would be to friend or foe or non-aligned. Especially in a country that is in recesion and debt with our infrastructure falling down all around us!!!!!

    Do I care if Clooney throws his money to any in Sudan personally or any other Americans that want to do so with their money? Not at all.(thats their right) Do I care about some actor who's influence gets Congressmen to come out and stand with him on a cause concerning another foreign country. Now that I take issue with. As for the obvious reasons of the Starlets Worldwide recognition and money. No one is stopping Clooney from speaking out about such. No one denies that Clooney has been in the Sudan since the atrocities in Darfur. Clooney also knows that it would take changing the government of Sudan in order to get any type of play and to have real effort to stop the genoicide. Both tribal and religious. Which means US interference or that of the UN.

    While arguing the semantics of free speech and the right to talk about whatever. That Politicians should be able to do whatever on their own time. Are they off between 9-5pm? Are they off during the weekdays? So now while running around the country and their state for campaign. Endorsing other people. While still representing their state and those responsibilities. They should waste the taxpayers money by protesting the Sudan Embassy. Meaning their government and all that pertains to it. When there is no threat to our National Security with anything concerning Sudan? Do you think government should be ran effeciently and effectively?

    Is it the United States right to jump off into any other countries and their civil wars? Does a politican need to Lead by Example?

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    First I would go by the premise that any who are voted into office and sent to Washington are there to represent those from their states (generally speaking and commonly known)
    No one here has raised any objection to that. Where you take a running leap off the deep end is when you go and write as if those in congress, or private individuals (i.e. Clooney) are somehow overstepping some imaginary and completely arbitrary bounds by raising concerns about things going on outside the borders of the United States.

    You keep repeating implicit assertion of this premise in each and every post, because you continue to write as though the substance and worth of this completely unwarranted presumption is supposed to be obvious...when it ISN'T.

    Thus far, the face you are presenting to others -- as a poster -- is one of irrational isolationism -- not just in policy but in conception of cause and effect in general. Real life doesn't work that way. In real life, cause and effect don't draw or abide by arbitrary forcefields raised at the edges of countries on a map.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Wonder if those two Democratic Congressmen figured out that they were suppose to be serving the people of the United States. Thats what they were sent to Washington for. To Serve the people of Mass and Virginia. See, now if they were in the House, where they were suppose to be and working for the American People. They would not get caught up with Hollywood Starlets and whatever issues and concerns they have for those overseas.

    Now as far as Georgie boy is concerned.....if he wants to do something about Sudan. Then let him take his azz over there. This is a NOPD situation.
    You missed the part where the Secret Service arrested Americans for speaking, in order to protect a foreign warlord from having to hear it.
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    Re: George Clooney arrested at Sudan embassy protest

    Oh, were you concerned that the piece stated two Democrats? I wouldn't want that to confuse anyone with my comments. That their party is such a concern to me. Which is why I said politicans.

    As to Clooney making us all aware of what is taking place in the Sudan and Darfur. I think his friend Susan Rice, the US Ambassador has been presenting the case. With what pertains to the Foreign Policy and specifically those issues. While this adminsitration may feel like it should give more money to Sudan. I think it realizes that it is limited in how much it can do.

    No one said anything about Isolationism. But Clooney is talking about those in power in Sudan. So all those ramifications apply.
    Seems Russia and China have the most influence with the Sudanese. Perhaps Clooney might want to talk to them about using some leverage. To help out and play police-man.

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