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Thread: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If it's part of their compensation it is not free.
    It's no longer part of their compensation and they will have to make contribtions. If it wasn't free before, it is definetly not free now.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Walker's campaign adviser (prior to the election)
    Walker's campaign advisor, AFAIK, is not Walker. And he didn't say that Walker intended to eliminate collective bargaining altogether. His comment was restricted to health benefits.

    But walker himself flat-out lied about it, and it's on tape. Here's the meat on the bone:

    While there have been continuing efforts to show that Scott Walker never did reveal his plans for collective bargaining in the state during the campaign, definitive proof has now emerged via a video tape of Candidate Walker being interviewed by the editorial board of the Oshkosh Northwestern— just one week before the election.

    The smoking gun video was recently unearthed by Judd Lounsbury, and published on his Uppity Wisconsin blog, and reveals that Scott Walker was singing quite a different tune before winning his gubernatorial race. While you can watch the entire video at the Uppity Wisconsin website—and I recommend you do so—here is the relevant dialogue which takes place at 7:50 into the conversation -


    Editorial Board Member: Before, we were talking about state employees contributing to their plan, paying their share of the pension plan. Collective bargaining come into that?

    Walker: Yep (nodding yes)

    Editorial Board Member: How do you get that negotiated and accepted by the state employee unions?

    Walker: You still have to negotiate it.
    I did that at the county as well.

    Walker went on to indicate that he was willing to work with the unions, pointing out that he had used furloughs as a bargaining tool when negotiating with unions as Milwaukee County Executive and that he would “approach a similar strategy for the state.” Walker further noted that he was open to compromise and that if the unions had ideas as to how to save money, he would be willing to explore what they might have to say.

    Scott Walker Caught In Pre-Election Lie On Collective Bargaining Plans-Will Wisconsin Voters Care? - Forbes
    Go ahead and try to spin that.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    While it's part of compensation, they were making no monetary contributions. It was mostly publicly funded, hence free to the employee.
    Can't speak for everyone, but I have always made a contribution. However, that doesn't matter one bit. Compensation is compensation. I don't contribute to my salary either. The company, hospital, school, all give compensation. This is in return for my employment. That makes it mind, and not theirs. They don't tell me how to spend my pay check. And as I said, the catholic hospital I worked for said this compensation is my pay check. As such, there is no requirement that I contribute.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Walker's campaign advisor, AFAIK, is not Walker. And he didn't say that Walker intended to eliminate collective bargaining altogether. His comment was restricted to health benefits.

    But walker himself flat-out lied about it, and it's on tape. Here's the meat on the bone:
    Don't really need to. Politicians lie all the time. They also change their mind dependingon circumstances - such as unions saying they absolutely would not negotiate about collective bargaining (prior to changing their mind). BFD.

    However, his campaign indicated that collective bargaining was going to be changing and some items would be removed. The unions knew this and campaigned against it. It really wasn't a surprise to them, unless you really beleive the unions somehow forgot what they were saying and printing in their campaign related brochures attacking Walker.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That makes it mind, and not theirs.
    They legally took it away. So it wasn't really theirs, was it? Now, assuming they want to continue to participate, will have to contribute.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Don't really need to. Politicians lie all the time. They also change their mind dependingon circumstances - such as unions saying they absolutely would not negotiate about collective bargaining (prior to changing their mind). BFD.

    However, his campaign indicated that collective bargaining was going to be changing and some items would be removed. The unions knew this and campaigned against it. It really wasn't a surprise to them, unless you really beleive the unions somehow forgot what they were saying and printing in their campaign related brochures attacking Walker.
    So your defense of Walker is, "politicians lie all the time"?

    My work is done here.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    They legally took it away. So it wasn't really theirs, was it? Now, assuming they want to continue to participate, will have to contribute.
    Maybe, if negotiated that way. That is the nature of negotiation.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    If Walker was an effective leader, he would do what is necessary. Instead, he is letting politics and his desire to retain his office get in the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So your defense of Walker is, "politicians lie all the time"?

    My work is done here.
    I never claimed politicans, and yes this includes Walker, don't lie and that was obviously not what we were discussing. I indicated that the Walker campaign clearly indicated that the unions would not be able to collectively bargain over certain things. Walker followed through with that. I also indicated that the unions were very aware of his intention to restrict collective bargaining, as they campaigned against him based on preserving their collective bargaining rights.

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    Re: Walker says unions trying to sabotage government reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The only problem is that he never said he was going to yank the unions' bargaining rights. He somehow forgot to mention that major policy initiative throughout the whole campaign.
    Oh, well, gee whiz. You mean he didn't tell you everything he was going to do? Oh my. Are you kidding me?

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