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Thread: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

  1. #101
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Some employers provide health insurance to their employees. A portion of them provide a policy that doesn't cover BC. This mandate prohibits that. Some employers are morally opposed to paying for BC. If they also want to provide health insurance to their employees, they can't do both, so they're forced to choose. Those are the facts. If I'm wrong, prove it.

    IMHO, employers shouldn't be forced to make this choice without a good reason. I haven't seen a reason that satisfies me. Those are opinions, so I can't prove that they're right, but you can't prove that they're wrong.
    the first choice is getting into public business, theres your proof DONE LOL
    secondly what the mandate ACTUALLY does is allow the insurance company to provide it in cases where the employee doesnt have to

    also your opinion of satisfaction is meaningless against facts, discrimination is a good reason and proves you are wrong if you think religion is solely a good enough reason to not cover BC.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 03-14-12 at 09:19 PM.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    the first choice is getting into public business, theres your proof DONE LOL
    We're talking about people who are already in business, so getting out of business is a choice that falls under ceasing to provide health insurance.





    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    secondly what the mandate ACTUALLY does is allow the insurance company to provide it in cases where the employee doesnt have to
    Please paraphrase.





    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    also your opinion of satisfaction is meaningless against facts, discrimination is a good reason and proves you are wrong if you think religion is solely a good enough reason to not cover BC.
    My latter comments were most assuredly opinions, so they can't be factually false. According to a NYT poll, most people agree with me, and the majority is even bigger when religion is involved. I suspect that the majority would be even bigger if people weren't spinning the issue. Some are claiming that the forcees are the forcers.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  3. #103
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    We're talking about people who are already in business, so getting out of business is a choice that falls under ceasing to provide health insurance.
    this is the dishonest im talking about. Are you implying that they didnt know they have to play by public rules and didnt know they cant discriminated? Because there are already things they have to NOT do becuae they are in public buisness that go against religion, am I supposed to believe this is just the straw that broke the camels back?? LOL sorry. Public rules have been around for a long time and them not being able to force thier religion on people as also been a rule for a long time, this is just a loop hole that is being fixed . and or finally caught. Nice try but again reality disagrees.




    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Please paraphrase.
    please qoute my whole statements and it doesnt get any more clear :shrug






    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    My latter comments were most assuredly opinions, so they can't be factually false. According to a NYT poll, most people agree with me, and the majority is even bigger when religion is involved. I suspect that the majority would be even bigger if people weren't spinning the issue. Some are claiming that the forcees are the forcers.
    since discrimination is illegal you are factually wrong no matter how many people opinion you THINK agree with you.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    I really don't care either way, the point of the thread is it really doesn't matter. Obama and the Democrats are just spinning their wheels and making a lot of noise for nothing while the economy burns in the background. It will consume them in November.
    Seems to me it's the right that's making the most noise. Obama compromises, Rush spews and the right follows.

  5. #105
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    This is not about women's healthcare, it is not about cost...it is about first amendment rights. The Ubama administration is trying to get those who believe and live the first amendment...freedom OF Religion, not freedom FROM religion to conform to his views or make them, force them to accept something they do not believe in. I refuse to accept this. It's time for the children of God to speak up and hold their ground. Centuries ago, England was forced into martyrdom to fight for their Lord and God. I never thought I would see this in America. Get ready children of God, this is our fight to win.

  6. #106
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapunzel52 View Post
    This is not about women's healthcare, it is not about cost...it is about first amendment rights. The Ubama administration is trying to get those who believe and live the first amendment...freedom OF Religion, not freedom FROM religion to conform to his views or make them, force them to accept something they do not believe in. I refuse to accept this. It's time for the children of God to speak up and hold their ground. Centuries ago, England was forced into martyrdom to fight for their Lord and God. I never thought I would see this in America. Get ready children of God, this is our fight to win.
    It has nothing to do with religion. These are not churches or clergy. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #107
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Normally I wouldn't wish Ill of people, but wouldn't it be ironic if your bone didn't set right and you lost mobility because of it?
    You wouldn't have mentioned it if what you said was true at the beginning of the sentence. With that being said, that's why I paid for an X-Ray. I have eyes and can see for myself and use research to figure out what's in my best interest. I have complete confidence in myself and my own health care decisions. Don't forget, 50% of all Doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class. If Obama Care goes forward, the top 50% will specialize and the bottom of the barrel will be relegated to primary care....your primary care. 18 years ago, I was involved in a serious vehicle wreck on the job. The company paid for cheesy health clinic doctors that didn't know the difference between a bacterial infection in my blood and the flu. It was only through the heroic efforts of some really good specialists, I'm typing here today (try not to be too disappointed). For those who think Obama Care is so great, all I can say is good luck, your going to need it.
    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Edit: the main problem with insurance us that we expect employers to pay for it directly instead of giving us the money to get it ourselves. Damn you Nixon and your HMOs Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  8. #108
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    With regard to 'a bucket of fried fast food' I fail to see the MORAL connection. Can you please clarify? thx
    It's so obvious, it doesn't need any clarification.

    An employer can easily morally object to obese people abusing food resources by consuming so much more of what they need as sustenance, and refuse coverage for those people.

    The claim of a religious objection is as subjective as any claim one could imagine. Unfortunately churches are already exempt from covering items they say they find "immoral", but now if their affiliated profit-making enterprises -- none of them pay their doctors basic wage or have their admins as volunteers, do they? -- are also covered under the subjective umbrella of "moral objection", then anyone can raise any objection and call it moral too and there won't be any reason to reject their claim either.

    Not to mention none of the conservative trash PR on this issue ever dares to mention similar coverage for men and whether or not it should be blocked like they want for women.

    The system of associating health care with employment is major problem in the first place, but if it is implemented, then it should be fair, and claiming moral objections at will is not fair for anyone, even if it's the Catholic Church and their well known position against contraception.

    When a church employs people, they are entering into a social contract with their employees, an agreement that is dictated by general and objective parameters, like paying them for compensation, expecting them to work for their paycheck, etc. Claiming a moral objection to avoid other aspects of those social parameters is preferential treatment and unfair by definition.

    If a church, any church had any capacity of moral authority as they mean it, they wouldn't need employees in the first place. Their god should be able to fulfill their worldly needs... but even their god doesn't, so why should we give them any special treatment?
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  9. #109
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomOf View Post
    Anyway, if the Catholic church is back to disallowing birth control for Catholics then it is reasonably new, because for years it was being allowed.
    No it did not and it never has.[/quote]

    The question then is, does the catholic church allow freedom of religion for others? If they agree in freedom of religion then they cannot disallow providing health care coverage that provides birth control to non-catholics
    Freedom of religion is not forcing a person religiously opposed to birth control to have to pay for it.

    This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.
    Declaration on religious freedom - Dignitatis humanae
    Not paying for someone else's birth control is hardly forcing someone to act contrary to their beliefs. The above quote supports my position however, since it is against the beliefs of the Catholic church to support birth control, and therefore it is an abrogation of religious freedom to require any Catholic to pay for it.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  10. #110
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    Re: Poll: Most say employers should be allowed not to cover contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Paralogic View Post
    If a church, any church had any capacity of moral authority as they mean it, they wouldn't need employees in the first place. Their god should be able to fulfill their worldly needs...
    You have a poor understanding of humanity and what really makes up a church.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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