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Thread: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    For the record and future discussions that we are sure to have, are you stating that if any court reaches a decision you will agree that it is the correct one? If not, then that is just someones opinion, just like anyone elses and I fail to understand your point.
    I'm not necessarily going to agree with it, but given that it is the result of sworn testimony and evidence, and that it is issued by someone with training and experience separating **** from Shinola, I will give it greater weight some random guy's opinion.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm not necessarily going to agree with it, but given that it is the result of sworn testimony and evidence, and that it is issued by someone with training and experience separating **** from Shinola, I will give it greater weight some random guy's opinion.
    So when a conservative judge rules in favor of something you oppose, does that sway your opinion?

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What journalist? To repeat, that was a quote from the judge's decision.
    I've seen that story reprinted a dozen times, so I assumed it was written as such. However, the story quoted is as provided in the lawsuit filed.

    Do you see the problem with the examples given?

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    It appears from the article shown, that Wisconsin was requiring a seperate form of ID for voter registration/voting. I find it very hard to believe that niether had a drivers liscence in all that time and if he was a Marine, then he difinitly had a Armed Forces Identification at one time because it is required.

    Requiring people to get another form of ID for voting I could see as a problem, but requiring you to show a form of ID I think is just sensible. My local voting place has always asked for a drivers liscence when I go in to vote. Never had a problem with that. And if you don't have a drivers liscence, there are state issued IDs for those people.

    In a state like Texas which has a large population of illegal immigrants and immigration is often an issue for elected officials, I can see that requiring an ID to vote would be a very good thing. The whole issue of voter fraud is kind of hard, how do you prove that people who shouldn't vote, did, if you don't require identification for voting? There have been many cases in the past where fraud was uncovered, is there some reason some people think that it suddenly doesn't happen now?

    I am definitly for using existing forms of ID at voting locations, however, I would be against requiring a new, special ID just for voting.

    I guess now that DOJ has started this nonsense, our primaries will be delayed even further until both this and the redistricting issue has been settled.

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonI View Post
    Why all of a sudden do you think this has become and issue? It's certainly not because of voter fraud...
    In CT, we've had to show ID for as long as I can remember.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    So when a conservative judge rules in favor of something you oppose, does that sway your opinion?
    Yes, like I said, I certainly give it greater weight than I would a forum post or something on World Net Daily.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    example #1 was denied because his name isn't Ricky Tyrone Lewis, its actually Tyrone DeBarry. This information is pulled from the NAACP's court filing.
    Do you have a link for that?

    example #2 never had an actual birth certificate, but the state's record of her birth is accurate, except for her mother's maiden name which is misspelled. For the big fee of 20 bucks, they will generate her a birth certificate from their other records. Pulled from Voter ID becomes law of unintended consequences | Wausau Daily Herald | wausaudailyherald.com
    That's not quite the whole story, according to your own cite.

    "Though Frank never had a birth certificate, the state Register of Deeds in Madison has a record of her birth. It can generate a birth certificate for her -- for a fee. Normally, the cost is $20.

    "I look at that like paying a fee to vote," Frank said.

    And for Frank, that might not be the end of it. The attending physician at Frank's birth misspelled her maiden name, which was Wedepohl. To get a birth certificate that has correct information, she will have to petition a court to amend the document -- a weekslong process that could cost $200 or more.
    Example #1 is clearly a clusterfark from day 1 that would take time to clearup regardless of the voterID law.
    Except that there was apparently no need to clear it up until the voter ID law passed....

    Example #2 is an example where the state needs to clean up their record keeping into the 21st century, and they should waive the $20 fee since she wasn't issued a cert back in 1929.
    As noted, it's a bit more complicated than that. And again, why put people who just want to vote through this trouble and expense? Can you show me ANY example of voter impersonation in the whole history of Wisconsin elections?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you have a link for that?

    That's not quite the whole story, according to your own cite.

    As noted, it's a bit more complicated than that. And again, why put people who just want to vote through this trouble and expense? Can you show me ANY example of voter impersonation in the whole history of Wisconsin elections?

    1) https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...lW6HryaA&pli=1

    This is the filed complaint. Search for "DeBarry". I'm giving you the google cached version, because the NAACP site for the original is ass slow, and I gave up waiting for it.

    2) This is where that story is wrong. Why would the spelling of your Mother's Maiden name matter when trying to get your birth certificate? Ms. Frank's name is spelled correctly on the birth certificate, so there isn't anything to clear up.

    3) What it means is that all of his documents are wrong. He runs the risk of having an issue anytime those documents are cross-referenced for benefits, insurance claims, probate, etc.

    4) That is akin to asking for proof that someone in a dark room is wearing a red shirt, while at the same time stating that you can't turn on the lights to find out. If the parameters of finding a valid voter is that they are standing in front of you breathing, then its impossible to find voter fraud.

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    1) https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...lW6HryaA&pli=1

    This is the filed complaint. Search for "DeBarry". I'm giving you the google cached version, because the NAACP site for the original is ass slow, and I gave up waiting for it.

    2) This is where that story is wrong. Why would the spelling of your Mother's Maiden name matter when trying to get your birth certificate? Ms. Frank's name is spelled correctly on the birth certificate, so there isn't anything to clear up.

    3) What it means is that all of his documents are wrong. He runs the risk of having an issue anytime those documents are cross-referenced for benefits, insurance claims, probate, etc.

    4) That is akin to asking for proof that someone in a dark room is wearing a red shirt, while at the same time stating that you can't turn on the lights to find out. If the parameters of finding a valid voter is that they are standing in front of you breathing, then its impossible to find voter fraud.
    Thanks for the link. So, as far as Mr. Lewis/DeBerry goes, it seems that he managed to make it 58 years -- until the voter ID law was passed -- without having to straighten out his problem. That included time served in the U.S. Marine Corps. That suggests to me that there's a least a better than even chance he could have gotten on just fine without the expense and headache of getting it all straightened out.

    Regarding the woman, it was her maiden name that was messed up -- not her mother's maiden name. I can imagine that that would be a problem in obtaining a birth certificate.

    Lastly, it is absolutely not the case that you can't find voter fraud without a voter ID law. In fact the registrar of voters *does* check the voter roles to insure that names match addresses, people don't vote twice, and that deceased persons or nonexistent persons don't vote. That provides good a check against voter impersonation and it is very very rare for those checks to turn up any problems. It also provides a very good check against any kind of organized impersonation scheme since, in order to avoid detection, you would have to know the name of an actual, registered person that you're impersonating, their address, and that they aren't themselves planning to vote, or that they haven't already voted by absentee ballot. If someone is willing and able to go to that much trouble, is it really that much more trouble to make up a fake ID?
    Last edited by AdamT; 03-12-12 at 06:36 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Justice Dept opposes Texas voter ID law - Yahoo! News



    Has ever an attorney general been so politically active?

    Why it's such a big damn deal to prove who you are before you vote is beyond me. You have to prove who you are to get a job, drive a car, go to school, rent an apartment...
    You need 2 or three forms of ID to cash a welfare check at a check cashing place. Personally, I'd like to see and indelible ink that gives you a purple finger and simply can't be removed used to ID folks that have already voted.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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