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Thread: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

  1. #181
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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If a war is long enough, then there sure as hell is a reason.
    Ever been there?

    There are guys who have done six, seven, eight tours of duty without committing the acts that this guy has, not to mention the guy's comrades, some of whom I'm sure have been deployed just as much as he has without killing sixteen civilians. It is idiotic to attribute the cause of this incident to the number of deployments, seeing as this sergeant is an exception to the rule.
    Yeah, and not every Soldiers experience is the same. We had one guy in my last unit that should have been chaptered out after he came back from his second deployment. The first one he got shot twice, and got blown up. During the middle of the second, he broke, and couldn't do it anymore. He should have been sent to mental health, but nope. They said the same thing to keep him in, that he was just faking it because there were guys that went on 3 or 4 tours. He shot himself in the head two months after coming back to the States.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  2. #182
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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Ever been there?
    Nope. And I fail to see how this is relevant or addresses my point. The military finds warm bodies for its needs. Military necessity is a pretty damn good reason for why we have guys serving multiple tours. I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing, but there are indeed reasons for why we have guys serving so many tours.

    Yeah, and not every Soldiers experience is the same. We had one guy in my last unit that should have been chaptered out after he came back from his second deployment. The first one he got shot twice, and got blown up. During the middle of the second, he broke, and couldn't do it anymore. He should have been sent to mental health, but nope. They said the same thing to keep him in, that he was just faking it because there were guys that went on 3 or 4 tours. He shot himself in the head two months after coming back to the States.
    I never said war was fun or that it's cool that people serve multiple tours. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. I'm sure war can **** up your mind in multiple ways, but your argument was that the cause of this incident was because this guy served four tours. By that reasoning, all guys serving four tours or more would be going out and killing sixteen civilians and turning themselves in afterwards.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-12-12 at 12:57 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If a war is long enough, then there sure as hell is a reason. There are guys who have done six, seven, eight tours of duty without committing the acts that this guy has, not to mention the guy's comrades, some of whom I'm sure have been deployed just as much as he has without killing sixteen civilians. It is idiotic to attribute the cause of this incident to the number of deployments, seeing as this sergeant is an exception to the rule.
    I agree it's idiotic to attribute his actions solely to deployment. If it were about deployment alone then every soldier deployed that many times would be doing these things. However, I don't think it's out of line to think that the number of deployments in addition to what he experienced on them might have contributed to his actions and potential psychotic break. It's also worth noting that not everything unethical military members do gets this amount of coverage. It's entirely possible that while things at this scale aren't happening frequently over there, callous things beyond the scope of combat are happening and are just not reported.

  4. #184
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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You need to convince the Afghans of this, not me! It is the Afghans that may retaliate and kill coalition forces, not me. It is the Afghans that can kick our ass out of their country, not me?
    I'm not too worried. I figure that the average Afghani can see the obvious truth in my post, perhaps better than you've managed. Really, it's common sense. They see us prosecuting the criminal and notice a difference between the US and terrorists - even if you can't see it.

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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm not too worried. I figure that the average Afghani can see the obvious truth in my post, perhaps better than you've managed. Really, it's common sense. They see us prosecuting the criminal and notice a difference between the US and terrorists - even if you can't see it.
    The average Afghani can't see your post because the average Afghani doesn't have internet access.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-12-12 at 01:32 PM.

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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    it doesn't matter right now. we should condemn the actions of the soldier and leave it at that. there is no point in referencing a culture we can't comprehend, and it makes no difference how they behave, that soldier committed a horrible crime.
    Of course he did. Always said as much.

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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Why are we still there?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Why are we still there?
    Because Bush didnt leave Obama an exit plan and strategy, nor did he have a prepositioned out agreement as they had in Iraq. They tried the 'surge'...now? I truly believe the reason we arent out is that Obama simply doesnt KNOW what to do. And really...he cant win. If we stay...more of the same. If we leave, republicans will rip him for 'retreating' or surrendering.

    This ALL should have been resolved under Bush. People dont like specific dates...horse****. We should have committed to post war + 5-7 years tops and then turned everything over to them.

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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Because Bush didnt leave Obama an exit plan and strategy, nor did he have a prepositioned out agreement as they had in Iraq. They tried the 'surge'...now? I truly believe the reason we arent out is that Obama simply doesnt KNOW what to do. And really...he cant win. If we stay...more of the same. If we leave, republicans will rip him for 'retreating' or surrendering.

    This ALL should have been resolved under Bush. People dont like specific dates...horse****. We should have committed to post war + 5-7 years tops and then turned everything over to them.
    For Obama talking big and claiming "BOLD" solutions, he sure is hand wringing on Afghanistan. I think if he actually grew a set and proclaimed, "We killed Al Qaeda, we removed the Taliban from power, we will remove most of our troops from Afghanistan and keep bases open to continue to route Al Qaeda and Taliban resurgence" I think he'd get universal support.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Official: U.S. soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Nope. And I fail to see how this is relevant or addresses my point.
    It means you're another armchair admiral, with a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda's, sans any actual knowledge or experience of what's going on in real time.


    I never said war was fun or that it's cool that people serve multiple tours. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. I'm sure war can **** up your mind in multiple ways, but your argument was that the cause of this incident was because this guy served four tours. By that reasoning, all guys serving four tours or more would be going out and killing sixteen civilians and turning themselves in afterwards.
    No, my argument is that he needs to be examined, instead of being instantly judged and thrown to the wolves, because something was obviously wrong. I pointed at his multiple tours as a contributing factor in what appears, to me, to be some sort of psychological breakdown.
    Last edited by Surtr; 03-12-12 at 02:31 PM.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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