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Thread: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to Flee

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    I haz theory.

    Theory is that the importance of a topic is directly related to the number of posts on it.


    So, then, Rush Limbaugh is important.


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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    And you are? I should take your opinion over an individual that actually participated in the case and has a background in law - and not just hers, but multiple involved individuals on both sides of the issue. The rulling clearly indicated that the religious institution (school in this case) has the first ammendment to protect them from government interference.



    I realize you'll just indicate this doesn't mean that the school has the ability to enjoy the first ammendment protections, but I figured i'd at least give it a a good faith try.
    I'm not asking you to take an opinion. I'm asking you to reason, and when all you give as reasoning is she said, so, well, that doesn't work well. We both noted the issue wasn't addressed, and then you said they declared it as protected when in fact the court did not rule that at all. And what you quote above doesn't state that either. The fact is the court has not ruled on this issue. But, factually, they did explain their ruling in favor of the church specifically by stating she was ministerial and not that schools were protected.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not asking you to take an opinion. I'm asking you to reason, and when all you give as reasoning is she said, so, well, that doesn't work well. We both noted the issue wasn't addressed, and then you said they declared it as protected when in fact the court did not rule that at all. And what you quote above doesn't state that either. The fact is the court has not ruled on this issue. But, factually, they did explain their ruling in favor of the church specifically by stating she was ministerial and not that schools were protected.
    Let's try this a different way. Why can't the government tell the school to keep a teacher that is designated as ministerial? That's right, because the school has first ammendment protections and the government can not tell a religious organization who to keep.

    The USSC indicated that the religious institution (school) was entitled to enjoy the rights afforded under the free exercise clause and be free from government meddling.

    And yes, I am more than happy to use reasoning, but I am also more than happy to listen to the participants and experts to see what they said. Especially when the topic requires specific knowledge and education.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I take that as a complement, seeing how it is coming from your extreme far right perspective.
    Then we are both pleased. You in your wrongness. And me because I am right. I love it when it all comes together.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Let's try this a different way. Why can't the government tell the school to keep a teacher that is designated as ministerial? That's right, because the school has first ammendment protections and the government can not tell a religious organization who to keep.

    The USSC indicated that the religious institution (school) was entitled to enjoy the rights afforded under the free exercise clause and be free from government meddling.

    And yes, I am more than happy to use reasoning, but I am also more than happy to listen to the participants and experts to see what they said. Especially when the topic requires specific knowledge and education.
    No. Because ministerial means they are part of the church, doing church functions. The right protects the ministers and the church, but not the school. It was her role as minister that prevented governmental interference, and we see this in their actual words, as they took a lot of time to explain their ruling and singled out her role and position. If they meant what you think they meant, there would be no need to that. But the point is, they have not ruled in any way that schools have the same rights.

    And participants are not experts. She is not a lawyer. She is not a judge. She has no more insight than either you or me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Because ministerial means they are part of the church, doing church functions. The right protects the ministers and the church, but not the school. It was her role as minister that prevented governmental interference, and we see this in their actual words, as they took a lot of time to explain their ruling and singled out her role and position. If they meant what you think they meant, there would be no need to that. But the point is, they have not ruled in any way that schools have the same rights.
    She was an employee of the school. Much like catholic teacher's are an employee of the school they teach at - even though that school is typically affiliated with a church.

    And participants are not experts. She is not a lawyer. She is not a judge. She has no more insight than either you or me.
    She certainly has more insight and training than I do and I really do believe that you're giving yourself way too much credit.

    University of Miami | School of Law

    Professor Corbin holds a B.A. from Harvard University (1991) and a J.D. from Columbia Law School (2001). She was a James Kent Scholar while at Columbia Law School, where she also won the Pauline Berman Heller Prize and the James A. Elkins Prize for Constitutional Law. Following law school, she clerked for the Hon. M. Blane Michael of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. She then litigated as a pro bono fellow at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP and as an attorney at the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. She completed a postdoctoral research fellowship at Columbia Law School immediately prior to joining the University of Miami faculty. Professor Corbin's primary area of research is the First Amendment, and her articles have appeared in the New York University Law Review, UCLA Law Review, and Boston University Law Review.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    She was an employee of the school. Much like catholic teacher's are an employee of the school they teach at - even though that school is typically affiliated with a church.
    As I said, the court made a distinction. You have to stop skipping that fact. They did not say as a teacher, she can be fired. they did not say as she works at a religious school she has no rights. They said clearly that because she was ministerial in her duties she could be fired.


    She certainly has more insight and training than I do and I really do believe that you're giving yourself way too much credit.

    University of Miami | School of Law
    I did get a laugh out of this, but no I'm not giving anyone too much credit. I merely point out you're too willing to believe, and too reluctant to question critically. On this issue, she has no more insight. Her comment carries no more weight. We have the ruling and what was actually said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As I said, the court made a distinction. You have to stop skipping that fact. They did not say as a teacher, she can be fired. they did not say as she works at a religious school she has no rights. They said clearly that because she was ministerial in her duties she could be fired.
    The USSC did say that the school can fire her, since she is defined as a ministerial employee. As our friend Caroline Mala Corbin indicated, they put the rights of the school to fire ministerial employees above the rights of the teacher to have EEOC protections. It clearly follows that the school - in certain situations - have been shown to have first ammendment rights by the USSC.

    Anyway, I am probably done with the conversation. It's obvious that the school was shown to have first ammendment rights in this case. I really only mention that I am done, so you don't wonder why I didn't reply to whatever your next comment is.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    The USSC did say that the school can fire her, since she is defined as a ministerial employee. As our friend Caroline Mala Corbin indicated, they put the rights of the school to fire ministerial employees above the rights of the teacher to have EEOC protections. It clearly follows that the school - in certain situations - have been shown to have first ammendment rights by the USSC.

    Anyway, I am probably done with the conversation. It's obvious that the school was shown to have first ammendment rights in this case. I really only mention that I am done, so you don't wonder why I didn't reply to whatever your next comment is.
    See the important part: "since she is defined as a ministerial employee." This suggests there is a difference between ministerial employees and non-ministerial employees. The question not answered is what would have happened had she not been ministerial. The language suggests the ruling would have been different and the school would not have been able to fire her. It is just a suggestion, but a logical one, as there would be no need to make the distinction if it had no meaning.

    And conversations do end. Have a good day.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I haz theory.

    Theory is that the importance of a topic is directly related to the number of posts on it.


    So, then, Rush Limbaugh is important.




    As are the Occupy groups across the nation!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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