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'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to Flee

Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

buck said:
Their ruling wasn't that the school have first ammendment rights? OK... You stick with that.
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You do realize her statement is not a court ruling?
 
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Boo Radley said:
You do realize her statement is not a court ruling?
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I think i'll take her opinion of the court ruling above yours, especially since it is the only one that makes sense and since she is actually a lawyer and filed a brief in support of the teacher. the court clearly found that the school has 1st amendment rights in at least some situations. Your disagreement is actually silly.
 
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buck said:
I think i'll take her opinion of the court ruling above yours, especially since it is the only one that makes sense and since she is actually a lawyer and filed a brief in support of the teacher. the court clearly found that the school has 1st amendment rights in at least some situations. Your disagreement is actually silly.
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Why? She is not a judge. She has no training. You're reaching at straws here. I suggest you try this tactic because you can't point to it in the ruling.
 
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Misterveritis said:
you are consistently on the wrong side of every issue
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I take that as a complement, seeing how it is coming from your extreme far right perspective.
 
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Boo Radley said:
Why? She is not a judge. She has no training. You're reaching at straws here. I suggest you try this tactic because you can't point to it in the ruling.
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And you are? I should take your opinion over an individual that actually participated in the case and has a background in law - and not just hers, but multiple involved individuals on both sides of the issue. The rulling clearly indicated that the religious institution (school in this case) has the first ammendment to protect them from government interference.

Chief Justice John Roberts wrote a 39-page opinion, taking the time to iterate the Founders’ intentions in the First Amendment to prohibit governmental interference in the internal affairs of religious groups, especially in their selection of their leaders in particular. He wrote:

The Establishment Clause prevents the government from appointing ministers and the Free Exercise Clause prevents it from interfering with the freedom of religious groups to select their own....

The interest of society in the enforcement of employment discrimination statutes is undoubtedly important. But so too is the interest of religious groups in choosing who will preach their beliefs, teach their faith, and carry out their mission. When a minister who has been fired sues her church alleging that her termination was discriminatory, the First Amendment has struck the balance for us. The church must be free to choose those who will guide it on its way.
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I realize you'll just indicate this doesn't mean that the school has the ability to enjoy the first ammendment protections, but I figured i'd at least give it a a good faith try.
 
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Re: 'Rush Limbaugh Show' Broadcasts Five Minutes of Dead Air as Sponsors Continue to

I haz theory.

Theory is that the importance of a topic is directly related to the number of posts on it.


So, then, Rush Limbaugh is important.


:mrgreen:
 
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buck said:
And you are? I should take your opinion over an individual that actually participated in the case and has a background in law - and not just hers, but multiple involved individuals on both sides of the issue. The rulling clearly indicated that the religious institution (school in this case) has the first ammendment to protect them from government interference.



I realize you'll just indicate this doesn't mean that the school has the ability to enjoy the first ammendment protections, but I figured i'd at least give it a a good faith try.
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I'm not asking you to take an opinion. I'm asking you to reason, and when all you give as reasoning is she said, so, well, that doesn't work well. We both noted the issue wasn't addressed, and then you said they declared it as protected when in fact the court did not rule that at all. And what you quote above doesn't state that either. The fact is the court has not ruled on this issue. But, factually, they did explain their ruling in favor of the church specifically by stating she was ministerial and not that schools were protected.
 
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Boo Radley said:
I'm not asking you to take an opinion. I'm asking you to reason, and when all you give as reasoning is she said, so, well, that doesn't work well. We both noted the issue wasn't addressed, and then you said they declared it as protected when in fact the court did not rule that at all. And what you quote above doesn't state that either. The fact is the court has not ruled on this issue. But, factually, they did explain their ruling in favor of the church specifically by stating she was ministerial and not that schools were protected.
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Let's try this a different way. Why can't the government tell the school to keep a teacher that is designated as ministerial? That's right, because the school has first ammendment protections and the government can not tell a religious organization who to keep.

The USSC indicated that the religious institution (school) was entitled to enjoy the rights afforded under the free exercise clause and be free from government meddling.

And yes, I am more than happy to use reasoning, but I am also more than happy to listen to the participants and experts to see what they said. Especially when the topic requires specific knowledge and education.
 
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Catawba said:
I take that as a complement, seeing how it is coming from your extreme far right perspective.
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Then we are both pleased. You in your wrongness. And me because I am right. I love it when it all comes together.
 
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buck said:
Let's try this a different way. Why can't the government tell the school to keep a teacher that is designated as ministerial? That's right, because the school has first ammendment protections and the government can not tell a religious organization who to keep.

The USSC indicated that the religious institution (school) was entitled to enjoy the rights afforded under the free exercise clause and be free from government meddling.

And yes, I am more than happy to use reasoning, but I am also more than happy to listen to the participants and experts to see what they said. Especially when the topic requires specific knowledge and education.
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No. Because ministerial means they are part of the church, doing church functions. The right protects the ministers and the church, but not the school. It was her role as minister that prevented governmental interference, and we see this in their actual words, as they took a lot of time to explain their ruling and singled out her role and position. If they meant what you think they meant, there would be no need to that. But the point is, they have not ruled in any way that schools have the same rights.

And participants are not experts. She is not a lawyer. She is not a judge. She has no more insight than either you or me.
 
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Boo Radley said:
No. Because ministerial means they are part of the church, doing church functions. The right protects the ministers and the church, but not the school. It was her role as minister that prevented governmental interference, and we see this in their actual words, as they took a lot of time to explain their ruling and singled out her role and position. If they meant what you think they meant, there would be no need to that. But the point is, they have not ruled in any way that schools have the same rights.
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She was an employee of the school. Much like catholic teacher's are an employee of the school they teach at - even though that school is typically affiliated with a church.

And participants are not experts. She is not a lawyer. She is not a judge. She has no more insight than either you or me.
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She certainly has more insight and training than I do and I really do believe that you're giving yourself way too much credit.

University of Miami | School of Law

Professor Corbin holds a B.A. from Harvard University (1991) and a J.D. from Columbia Law School (2001). She was a James Kent Scholar while at Columbia Law School, where she also won the Pauline Berman Heller Prize and the James A. Elkins Prize for Constitutional Law. Following law school, she clerked for the Hon. M. Blane Michael of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. She then litigated as a pro bono fellow at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP and as an attorney at the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. She completed a postdoctoral research fellowship at Columbia Law School immediately prior to joining the University of Miami faculty. Professor Corbin's primary area of research is the First Amendment, and her articles have appeared in the New York University Law Review, UCLA Law Review, and Boston University Law Review.
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buck said:
She was an employee of the school. Much like catholic teacher's are an employee of the school they teach at - even though that school is typically affiliated with a church.
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As I said, the court made a distinction. You have to stop skipping that fact. They did not say as a teacher, she can be fired. they did not say as she works at a religious school she has no rights. They said clearly that because she was ministerial in her duties she could be fired.


She certainly has more insight and training than I do and I really do believe that you're giving yourself way too much credit.

University of Miami | School of Law
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I did get a laugh out of this, but no I'm not giving anyone too much credit. I merely point out you're too willing to believe, and too reluctant to question critically. On this issue, she has no more insight. Her comment carries no more weight. We have the ruling and what was actually said.
 
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Boo Radley said:
As I said, the court made a distinction. You have to stop skipping that fact. They did not say as a teacher, she can be fired. they did not say as she works at a religious school she has no rights. They said clearly that because she was ministerial in her duties she could be fired.
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The USSC did say that the school can fire her, since she is defined as a ministerial employee. As our friend Caroline Mala Corbin indicated, they put the rights of the school to fire ministerial employees above the rights of the teacher to have EEOC protections. It clearly follows that the school - in certain situations - have been shown to have first ammendment rights by the USSC.

Anyway, I am probably done with the conversation. It's obvious that the school was shown to have first ammendment rights in this case. I really only mention that I am done, so you don't wonder why I didn't reply to whatever your next comment is.
 
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buck said:
The USSC did say that the school can fire her, since she is defined as a ministerial employee. As our friend Caroline Mala Corbin indicated, they put the rights of the school to fire ministerial employees above the rights of the teacher to have EEOC protections. It clearly follows that the school - in certain situations - have been shown to have first ammendment rights by the USSC.

Anyway, I am probably done with the conversation. It's obvious that the school was shown to have first ammendment rights in this case. I really only mention that I am done, so you don't wonder why I didn't reply to whatever your next comment is.
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See the important part: "since she is defined as a ministerial employee." This suggests there is a difference between ministerial employees and non-ministerial employees. The question not answered is what would have happened had she not been ministerial. The language suggests the ruling would have been different and the school would not have been able to fire her. It is just a suggestion, but a logical one, as there would be no need to make the distinction if it had no meaning.

And conversations do end. Have a good day. ;)
 
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The Mark said:
I haz theory.

Theory is that the importance of a topic is directly related to the number of posts on it.


So, then, Rush Limbaugh is important.


:mrgreen:
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As are the Occupy groups across the nation! :2wave:
 
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Catawba said:
As are the Occupy groups across the nation! :2wave:
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Yes, they are very important.

No one represents the breakdown of American society, and the education system that got them there, better than the OWS movement.
 
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Boo Radley said:
See the important part: "since she is defined as a ministerial employee." This suggests there is a difference between ministerial employees and non-ministerial employees. The question not answered is what would have happened had she not been ministerial. The language suggests the ruling would have been different and the school would not have been able to fire her. It is just a suggestion, but a logical one, as there would be no need to make the distinction if it had no meaning.

And conversations do end. Have a good day. ;)
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And yet new ones start up again....Look, the way I see it, is that Liberals in charge now want to separate the church from their mission of ministery which include hospitals, and schools (especially those that teach the Catholic faith), the real question is why? The vatican clearly sees Catholic schools as a part of their over all mission to educate, as documented by this dictum of the Vatican...

8. To carry out her saving mission, the Church uses, above all, the means which Jesus Christ has given her. She also uses other means which at different times and in different cultures have proved effective in achieving and, promoting the development of the human person. The Church adapts these means to the changing conditions and emerging needs of mankind(4). In her encounter with differing cultures and with man's progressive achievements, the Church proclaims the faith and reveals "to all ages the transcendent goal which alone gives life its full meaning"(5). She establishes her own schools because she considers them as a privileged means of promoting the formation of the whole man, since the school is a centre in which a specific concept of the world, of man, and of history is developed and conveyed.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...catheduc_doc_19770319_catholic-school_en.html
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Could it really be as simple as secular liberals wish not to have religion involved anymore in the 'development of man'?


j-mac
 
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j-mac said:
And yet new ones start up again....Look, the way I see it, is that Liberals in charge now want to separate the church from their mission of ministery which include hospitals, and schools (especially those that teach the Catholic faith), the real question is why? The vatican clearly sees Catholic schools as a part of their over all mission to educate, as documented by this dictum of the Vatican...
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Yes, I know how you see it, but as i said, I'm not a conspiracy theorists. but mission doesn't matter. Definition does. And as schools and hosptials are nto chruches, and secular teachers, doctors, janitors and nurses are not clergy or ministerial, by definition, they would not fit.


Could it really be as simple as secular liberals wish not to have religion involved anymore in the 'development of man'?


j-mac
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I can't sepak for secular liberals as I'm a christian liberal (Catholic). And I doubt such conspiracy silliness.
 
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Boo Radley said:
Yes, I know how you see it, but as i said, I'm not a conspiracy theorists. but mission doesn't matter. Definition does. And as schools and hosptials are nto chruches, and secular teachers, doctors, janitors and nurses are not clergy or ministerial, by definition, they would not fit.




I can't sepak for secular liberals as I'm a christian liberal (Catholic). And I doubt such conspiracy silliness.
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Look Joe, I am not a huge fan of conspiracies myself, you know that, but there are components that make one go hmmmm?

What say you to the Chicago Cardinal that says that Catholic Hospitals may have to shut down if this mandate isn't rescinded?

j-mac
 
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j-mac said:
Look Joe, I am not a huge fan of conspiracies myself, you know that, but there are components that make one go hmmmm?

What say you to the Chicago Cardinal that says that Catholic Hospitals may have to shut down if this mandate isn't rescinded?

j-mac
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I really don't think there is j. Nor do I believe for a second that those places will shut down. If they did I would call them on being petty, self serving assholes. But like I said, I don't believe there is any realistic chance they would close over this. I see it as a scare tactic to try and rally the faithful. Little more.
 
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Boo Radley said:
I really don't think there is j. Nor do I believe for a second that those places will shut down. If they did I would call them on being petty, self serving assholes. But like I said, I don't believe there is any realistic chance they would close over this. I see it as a scare tactic to try and rally the faithful. Little more.
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Sure there is. But, the Cardinal brings this up, you think it is just a tactic, a common thinking for a liberal that sees everything in terms of tactics used instead of truth. But, I am asking you to consider if they did in fact shut down. That is the thing I don't think you want to address because that would force you to consider that this administration is going too far.

j-mac
 
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Boo Radley said:
I really don't think there is j. Nor do I believe for a second that those places will shut down. If they did I would call them on being petty, self serving assholes. But like I said, I don't believe there is any realistic chance they would close over this. I see it as a scare tactic to try and rally the faithful. Little more.
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If a Catholic Hospital, or any Catholic charity, is forced to shut down because of government interference you would call the Catholics "self serving assholes"?? Have you really given this any thought?

And why would the Catholic Church use "scare tactics" when they supported Obamacare in the first place?

They just didn't realize that it would go as far as it did, but that's what happens when elected representatives pass bills without reading them first.

The Catholic Church, like millions of others, misplaced their faith in Obama rather than their usual, and much more reliable, sources.
 
Hello everyone. I just wanted to point out that Rush Limbaugh is still on the air. Still a millionair and doing very well.

Thats all i got. Have a good one.
 
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Jerry said:
Hello everyone. I just wanted to point out that Rush Limbaugh is still on the air. Still a millionair and doing very well.

Thats all i got. Have a good one.
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Mores the pity.

:coffeepap
 
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Grant said:
If a Catholic Hospital, or any Catholic charity, is forced to shut down because of government interference you would call the Catholics "self serving assholes"?? Have you really given this any thought?

And why would the Catholic Church use "scare tactics" when they supported Obamacare in the first place?

They just didn't realize that it would go as far as it did, but that's what happens when elected representatives pass bills without reading them first.

The Catholic Church, like millions of others, misplaced their faith in Obama rather than their usual, and much more reliable, sources.
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Yes, I've given it a lot of thought.

And one of the reasons I am a Catholic is because they do support health care reform and actually doing good work. And many, many Catholics don't agree with the most conservative of their flock. Still, to put such a minor issue over the their mission would make them self serving assholes.
 
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